The Brattleboro Selectboard got an earful from people in town that definitely do not feel safe downtown. Things have reached new levels of awfulness for people of all ages. The board is considering making downtown a “safety zone” to take care of this problem once and for all. What that means exactly remains to be determined. But progress is being made! And the Youth Council created a cool map.
The board also learned that come September, people in the hotel and motel program will begin to be kicked out of their lodgings and will require sheltering of some sort.
Preliminaries
Would you be surprised if I said they started late? 6:20…
Chair Daniel Quipp – if you haven’t signed in, sign in at the table. It is for our meeting records, and the other thing is when you address the meeting, so address us when we have speakers tonight. We’d like your name and you get up to 3 minutes. You might get more.
Town Manager John Potter – tonight is National Night Out at the Common until 8pm, sponsored by the police department. Kids can chat with them. Aug 13th is the state primary at the American legion. Return ballots by the close of polls on election day. You can still get your absentee ballot or vote early in the Town Clerk office. Rec & Parks wants feedback of the future of the Town Pool. Look for the survey. Or call Rec & Parks Dept. Summer season is winding down at the pool. Closing on August 18th.
Daniel – public safety is to be discussed later on the agenda. If you want to pull a consent item if you want it discussed.
Public –
Daniel B – I came to discuss the price increase of the parking garage. Quality and safety has gone down. I have a complaint with one of the safety people. Large numbers aren’t paying for parking. They are relieving themselves, defecating. Homelessness is out of hand. I came from LA. I saw a woman defecating on Main Street. It’s gone to hell. I’ve been personally harassed. I don’t want to pay $200 a month to run and hide in a parking garage I pay for. (Applause).
Daniel – I’ll ask we don’t applaud. It isn’t fair.
Dick Degray – I want to talk about the last meeting and the missed opportunities with the legislators, and the Chief here. When the assistant chief was giving statistics, and the Quality Inn being the number 1 spot. Why did none of us ask about rules and oversight at the Quality Inn. It’s the number one place to respond. Why are bad apples allowed to stay? Why didn’t any of us ask them? Why not W&WT come to discuss their rental properties, to defend their screening process. Groundworks – we gave them a lot of money. We have the right to ask them to come here and ask why they are the places our police department goes. A murder up on Putney RD? You should be asking that question. It is straining the police department so they can’t be downtown. When we respond to places with a high number of calls… the state should have oversight. It’s a shame.
Melissa – I was born here at BMH and grew up and have lived in Germany for the last 30 years. WE recently bought a house on Black Man RD and are here 6 months of the year. Happy to be back but also shocked at what has developed. There are two anecdotes to tell you. The other day we were driving down South Main into lower Main and Plaza Park with the fountain where the statue used to be, and there were two men washing themselves and their clothes in the fountain. That’s horrible. I mentioned it to a friend of mine who is 21 and lives on Frost Place and he says that happens. Nothing unusual. He told me he would not go to the parks with his kids because there are so many needles in the parks and they are so dirty and awful. He goes further away. It’s time.. high time – for something to happen and clean up and improve the safety in downtown Brattleboro.
Kevin P – I wrote this out and will read it. I have hard the town is considering new ordinances to deal with the toxic environment. There are ordinances already in place – enforce them!. Chapter 19 Cemetery – all town cemeteries shall be open dawn until dusk. Dawn til dusk. Brattleboro Selectboard shall be responsible for enforcing and keeping decorum. Chapter 13 – Public nudity prohibited. Caping on public lands or parks prohibited. My own opinion.. a the rights of a small amount of transient citizens are tipping the balance and the safety of the townspeople needs to be restored.
Steve Z – I’ve been observing downtown as I go by. Increased police presence, interacting with merchants. I’ve mentioned before, Groundworks will build a new facility and Brattleboro is a “hub for services” – people come because we have facilities. We are helping people who are not from Brattleboro. It’s a bigger policy issue – we are being buried by the numbers. We can try to help people but we don’t have the capacity. I implore you to speak to state reps to make policy changes.
Daniel Quipp – Also -90% of the people accessing services are from around here…
Joann M – thanks for hearing us on Town safety. It is not a simple problem and there are no simple answers. I’ve felt unsafe in town due to criminal drug activity. I’ve met with others and we brainstormed ideas. We reviewed the memo about safety zones and were impressed and saw our concerns are addressed in the memo and we hope the discussion and implementation will be a top priority. You know about illegal drugs in town. When we moved here, we were by Morningside Cemetery – we were told to watch out for drug paraphernalia . I wouldn’t walk alone there. I took three girls to the Latchis for a movie and we drove in, people at the Transportation center were yelling, and I was worried the girls would see something, but they weren’t phased, which bothered me, too. They saw it as the status quo.
Daniel Quipp – zoom – it has some alarm bells…
Lavi – (zoom bomb)
… – I’ve lived here 44 years and pay taxes. I am part of the group meeting regarding our town. I’ve had an elderly woman tell me she witnessed sexual behaviors, we’ve seen three people at the fountain and sexual behavior, open containers. I tried to go to open mic on Flat Street – there were 22-30 people… person with a swastica tattoo freaked me out so I didn’t get out of the car. The other day at Experienced Goods in the morning… they are all getting packages given to them. Their drugs. My grandson has to live in the Snow Block… he’s seen someone jump off the parking garage. There are needles everywhere in the parking lot. Some stores can’t open without cleaning up garbage. I’ve stopped going to the movies. I guy threatened my with a board at the post office. I work three jobs. The Brattleboro Museum is losing money. We need foot people on the ground. Police officers with the authority to arrest them. Twenty buck bail. Latchis is losing money. Stores are losing money. I’m petrified for my grandson. It’s more that a safety zone. We need to turn the parking garage into a police substation.
Daniel – we’ll talk public safety later on…
Scott K – I live on Putney Rd. I’m a dealer with a booth and work at Twice Upon A Time – I hear more and more that customers are more hesitant to come in and fear for their safety. parking on Flat Street is less and less of an option for customers. Could have a cascading effect.
Daniel – Thanks and you are appreciated. More later…
Consent Agenda
A. First and Third Class Liquor License – Snow Republic
B. Brannan Street Wall – Bid Award for $54,600
C. Gymnastic Spring Floor Replacement – Bid Award for $26,670
So consented.
Fire Department Quarterly Report FY24 Q4
Daniel – Chief Howard, welcome. This was on the agenda last week then tabled it so you could join us.
Chief – this is the last quarterly report that ended in June – (Reads yearly results in memo) – The EMS start up budget – this is for ending in June. Since then we got a second ambulance and things to stock it. You’ll see a big difference is start up costs when we come back in October. Some people say they don’t understand the numbers. The big part of this is ambulances. Just got it back from being lettered. The last ambulance we will get at the end of the month and by October we’ll have that one in service. happy to answer questions.
Franz Reichsman – So ambulances three with 660k budget – the actual amount is 384k… what’s included in the 384k and how are we doing with he total costs.
Chief – that includes part of the second ambulance and getting it lettered – we are right on budget and we have to watch it and may have to be good to take care of that over expenditure in that line items. We can save it in other areas.
Richard Davis – different class by type – you will categorize it?
Chief – we can do it better now that it is us. Prior to July 1 Golden Cross was doing it with their reporting system. data will be much better in our systems.
Davis – will you do that for mental ghealth and not lump them together?
Chief – we can try.
Richard – it has to do with the safety issue.
Liz McCloughin – how is morale and how is the takeover?
Chief – morale is good and it is a seamless takeover. Very pleased. Due to the people that work for me. I can’t thank them enough.
Franz – could you say words about medical control and district governance?
Chief – FD has a medical director – Dr Storn. District 13 has a medical director overseeing the district – he used to be Dr. Storn. We will review 5 cases tomorrow. What went good, what could we do better. Good feedback . We do it monthly.
Degray – About EMS calls – overdoses – great if we knew the numbers of how many resulted in death vs NARCAN – any categorized as Untimely?
Chief – when we go on overdose calls we document Narcan use by us or others. Some untimely are resulted to overdoses without a great outcome. Some are overdose deaths.
Bob Oeser – I think I’m here. Board, with respect to EMS calls by type, some questions – for cardiac arrest – do we have a save rate? A good outcome number? Same question with overdose – how many of those were saved? Also, overdoses – do we have a sense of how many involve the same people, and the same question goes momental health. There is a category of Altered Mental State – how are they distinguished? Knowing about people being serviced multiple times could mean resources targeted at those populations.
Chief – I want to get the proper numbers, reading HIPA and what I can tell you. If you take out heat maps, they are similar – police and EMS. I can dive in and give it back as much as I can.
Liz – is that the kind of thing Project CARE can help resolve.
Chief – we leave behind kits for overdoses with patients we service, plus a card for Turning Point – all in a bag we leave with them.
Franz – So Chief – there are a number of categories could be in more than one thing. On this graph, is a single person under multiple categories? Not representative of the total number of calls? Untimely death could include cardiac calls?
– Point of order – (??)
Daniel – we have experienced this before and sorry you have to see it. I’m sorry folks. Sir, there is very little I can do that is more than what Mr. Moreland can do..
– why don’t you shut it off?
Franz – the other part is to Mr. Oeser- I’d be happy to address those things individually.
Daniel – motion to accept the report?
5-0
AHS Emergency Housing Program– Miranda Gray
Danuil – we have members of the AHS – Chris Winters and Miranda Gray – you are hear to speak of the emergency housing program?
Chris – thanks and good to hear directly what yo are struggling with. We will explain the hotel motel program and who we are serving there, and what you might see as the impacts of changes. Gray is in charge of a lot of economic benefits. Housing is large part as we all grapple with the housing problems.
Miranda – Thanks. We did have a new law on July 1 – a real change to housing. The most significant change – people have 80 days to use housing (not including winter) – 60 days of paid stay in a motel. Some had stayed a long time. That’s the main change. Also, a change in who will be housed. 65 and older, during pregnancy, or families with children of a certain age. Another significant change is we are capped at how many room we can use. 1100. We now house 1450. We’ll bring that number down to comply with the law. The cap goes away in the winter. But, you have to be eligible in one of the categories – 65 plus, disabilities, etc.. at any time of year.
Chris – some context – Vermont is a shelter first – so hotels are a last resort is shelter beds not available. We are expanding shelter beds. That’s priority, since they can access services.
Miranda – also to get so people have resources to get to permanent housing, so there are some more pieces to this. We also learned during the pandemic that we house people with complex needs. If there are additional needs, we do referrals to approbate partners.
Chris – the 80 day limit – from July 1 that would get you to Sept 19th when the 80 days run out. Sept 15th requires us to shrink the number of rooms. There will be unsheltered people in September.
Miranda – people need to pay for some of the time they stay – an income contribution. An offramp – we’ve communicated that the change is coming and that they are making plans.
Daniel – Thanks.
Liz – Thanks. I think it is a signal to our Town that the administration is listening and understands the housing program had a profound impact on our town. I hope in addition to what you tell us, I hope you will hear our perspective and we can find some answers. First, the program was intended to be temporary and it has become a spot for chronic homelessness, which is a different problem to solve. The most important thing – it was assumed that Brattleboro would provide services and Brattleboro taxpayers would assume the costs of the police, fire, busses, and so on. Brattleboro pays more taxes and has a higher rate of poverty. WE are burdened and burdensome. We need the state to understand that with your formulas – it impacts Brattleboro – if less are in shelters, they are on the street. If they are in shelters, we have more to do for them. There is no revenue sharing for what we pay as part of this program. It’s difficult for me to understand that you don’t collect information if people leave the program? If they are on the streets, you wash your hands of them? My concern is for the people of Brattleboro. You heard it is a daily struggle for all of us to host this number of troubled individuals with complex needs. The state has put the shelter in Brattleboro because we have the services, which means the Brattleboro taxpayer has to pay for the services. Like a potluck dinner, someone else needs to take their turns as the host.
Chris – thanks – we don’t collect info. They have freedom of choice. They don’t tell us where they go. Sometimes they come back. I understand the stress on your public services. We support the shelters with grants, we fund and support programs like Groundworks and SEVCA , the Freedom Center – we do invest funding to support the community. Brattleboro is a very generous community. When we reduce the number of hotels, we will be looking at populations with services nearby.
Liz – the missing link is the municipality – hotel and motel owners making money, social services get funded, but the municipality – police and fire – there is no mention of the strain that places on our taxpayers.
Daniel – at our last meeting we saw some data from the police department and the number 1 location was the Quality Inn – I work for SEVCA and I was a housing administrator. We keep the number of unshelled people down. It is very challenging to get people into safe and affordable housing. people in hotels are not having a great time. Service provers are overburdened. The administration can do more to support service providers and to help people to get into safe housing and out of temporary housing. Public safety, public works, the Library.. all impacted by this. Librarians have become social service providers but we need more resources to do it effectively.
Peter Case – Nothing new to add to that. We’ d like more support for our taxed systems.
Richard – the people in shelters and the people in hotels, are they accessing similar support services or are they only provided by the state or is there an overlap?
Melissa – in motels it is through Coordinated Entry to get a case manager, but there isn’t anything formal. We don’t have case managers. Our role is to see if someone is eligible and find them a place to stay in Vermont.
Sue G – a piece of this does fund hotel case managers who serve all the clients in the hotel program. They re specifically to support the hotel program. Through Groundworks.
Richard – not to be flip or sarcastic, but when the 80 days runs out and the weather gets cold and we have 200 people – is our best option a bus ticket to Florida?
Melissa – what are there plans, is there a friend or family member they can stay with? Do they want to move out of Vermont? We can support their goals.
Chris – this program keeps getting extended, so some in the hotel program might not think it will end. This time it is serious. You have 80 days. Hard to predict how many will shelter and stay in the area?
Franz – In mid September, are you keeping track of how many days have been used and do we know what the numbers will be like in this area, and do you have advice for how we deal with it?
Melissa – we track how many nights are used and 58 have used every night in July. We pay for 150 households. About 60 will hit 80 days in September.
Liz – I’m struck that you have an inability to rich some people. No mater what, some people cannot be reached. We are seeing that in our data from police and others. There needs to be a solution for the unreachable complex needs people. It goes beyond your hotel program and our social service programs. They are unreachable. Thoughts?
Chris – it is housing, it is economic, it is chronic instability, it is opioids. We have a duty to keep showing up until they accept help. There will be some people we just can’t reach.
Daniel – public?
John M – I worked 27 years at welfare fraud investigator and we dealt with these problems all the time. Reach out to them – they know how to get funding. The thing I want to ask – is there any supervision in the motel program – there are the police calls and ou resources. I have a friend who lives across from the Quality Inn and he sees people subletting rooms, getting high in rooms. There needs to be more oversight and that might check some of the bad behavior. Not hearing there is any formal supervision – you pay all this tax money to the motel owner who isn;t doing anything.
Chris – other communities struggle with this. We only have so much control over hotels. We want a safe place for people to stay. They should be held accountable. Rutland is doing that more. Berlin is doing that – making the hotel provide security. We hold back payment if conditions aren’t good in hotels. Appreciate you bringing it up.
(audience) Daniel – Eligibility criteria – when I get housing or vehicle, employment. You have to show a record of what you did in the past. If you take information, why not request a background check, or questions on a survey. There needs to be more done. If I have a bay I can have assisted living? I know people who have lived in hotels and like it. I lived in a vehicle. I would have loved to stay in a motel.
Melissa – we do determine eligibility – how much can you pay and what cause you to be unhoused. We can’t do background checks if they meet eligibility. Hotels have their own criteria for their establishments.
Connie – I’m on the Friends of the Library board – I support what you say about the Library becoming a day center for homeless. There was an overdose. We need a security guard to get people out at night. Starr is treated daily, we may lose staff. It is not what they signed on to do. They have had some training bit it is not their area of expertise. taxes go up to pay for security to deal with homelessness.
Pleasant Valley Water Treatment Facility Project Change Order and Update
Dan Tyler – So, we reached a point where we are substantially complete. Majority of the work is done. There is a punch list for the contractor. Touch up paint, putting in grass… about 60% done with that list. Some certifications we are waiting on and approaching the end. This change order ties up loose ends- various ends that increase the cost, or a credit, or changes the time. Some wasn’t in the contract that we added, and some substitutions for materials that were difficult to source. Of the ten items, (9k + 30 days of contract time. The project is in good shape. This will be covered by the contingency – about $350k remaining. We do expect another change order with some minor stuff and some major items. Should be all set cost wise. Ask that you approve the change order.
Liz – you are telling us that this amount is well within the $350k. Thanks.
Daniel – but there will be other changes and it will still be on budget.
Dan – over contract cost but within limit.
approved!
Quarterly Finance Report – FY24, Through Q4 (7:30 PM)
Kim Frost – (reviews report – July 1 – June 30 2024 – the year is complete, and finances were within plans except for ARPA funds – that was transferred things around which put revenues and expenses out of ordinary. I gave you a chart with those numbers removed. Staffing costs on target. Management balanced overtime really well. Collective bargaining had some unanticipated costs due to the starting dates. Some departments were over budget. Utilities went over budget – electric, phone, heating fuel. Town manager had one time expenses that led to these. HR was over due to advertising and licenses for software. Police trended high due to the snbudgetted security and software… General Fund revenues – didn’t get Q4 state revenue from taxes yet. You’ll see the utility budget even out. Permits for parking were lower than budgeted. New fine and fee schedule will take effect in October FY25. Grant and Loans – 4 million in loans and 20 active grants.
Degray – do you have paper we don’t have? Something not in the packet? The finance director gave you something? Okay. This? Okay. What the Q1 expenses are and what the personal management expenses were in HR, and FD revenue projected 80k but they brought in 30k. Why?
Kim – Q1 overbudget was Town Manager bought a copier in Q1. $12k. In finance we had to pay $5k for old software. HR – some is lawyers fees for arbitration or grievances if we use an attorney outside of our town attorney . Rental housing income was low.
accepted!
250 Birge Street Property Acquisition
Brian Bannon – Brattleboro and the Vermont River Conservancy have worked together, and they request we take over the property now that work is done. If we do, it will be subject toe easements for conservation – low impact recreation. If approved, there I’ll be a closing in September and the Governor will come.
John Potter – gratitude for Brian – an amazing amount of work that will be great benefit to the town, plus a new 12 acre park for the Town.
Liz – I want to add my congratulations and thanks. This has been in the works since Irene. Very complex, hard to get approved. It’s a great project. Go see the wonder of it all.
Daniel – I assume it is already helping with flooding downstream. 250 Bridge Street – if you go along Williams Street you’ll see the big empty space. Go down Birge Street… dog walking is allowed.
– I live in the neighborhood and am concerned. There has already been litter down there. As you move the Flat Street folks they might come here. Our neighborhood is in dire straights.
Brian – our ban of camping goes into effect if we own it…
approved.
Daniel – a break until 8:10!
Safety Zones and Related Interventions
JOhn Potter – this discussion is part of many things we are working on. This is a focus on what you can do at the municipal level. No motions tonight just feedback. We want to stick to the unacceptable behaviors, to understand what they are, in what locations will you address these behaviors, and what sort of interventions do you want? Police will be here at your next meeting to discuss downtown from law enforcement perspective. This is about developing a concept for safety zones which was a priory for you – addressing undesireable behaviors impacting quality of life. We listed potential; behaviors for us to focus in, a way to think about locations, and three high level interventions to consider – more services, a communications plan, or a stepped up ordinance that expands our abilities to address undesirable behaviors. The policy questions are on page 58. Cassandra and the youth council are here to share a a presentation. We learned how your perceive safety in Brattleboro.
cassandra – we have 5 youth council members. We adzes substance abuse harms and youth empowerment work.
Leo – I’m a 10th grader and the youth council meets once a month oto make the community better. We are here to talk of community safety.
Jamel – I’m a junior in HS and will present our map – we have different popular spots youth like to congregate – green are good places, red areas are not so great. Safe spaces require wealth or transportation to access those spaces. Our goal …
Alex – we want to work with other youth and the town to create more green spots and less red spots.
Matty – I’m a junior – we invite you to join us in a listening panel where we will talk about this map and other safety issues where we can hear from other students and what they feel is an issue.
AJ – I live in Vernon – a softnmore. Today I attended a meeting and it considered youth issues all over Vermont, and lots of issues of wanting to hear youth talk and yet I was included, there has been youth voice… what there is a absence of is adult listening. Places for us to converse and discuss are needed. We invite you to share space with us in the fall and hop you appear and consider when holding space making it more accessible to youth. We want to help with problems and be part of the solution. At least, be there.
Cassandra – youth council is to include youth as much as we can. Like town reps. Very diverse. The foundation is set. We are ready now.
Daniel – thanks to all – you will have some feedback to give us about all of this, so feel free to chime in a moment. Board members, tis agenda item has no motion – we have questions to consider – I’d like to move methodically if we can. First is – the types of behaviors to address in public accessible spaces. Comments?
Liz – I want to
(chairs get moved around)
Daniel – we are thinking about behaviors
Liz – I support this wholeheartedly and the list I’m in favor of all of it.
Franz – I think, well, some of these are judgment calls. I’m not in favor of littering or smoking but they don’t need to be the focus of our discussion. Some things are going to happen, so let’s be clear on the most important. We don’t want these things happening. There are certain things that are absolute and some relative.
Richard – the list, it would be good to prioritize at some point and hear what other people have to say. Less important – animals to intimidate others, lighting fires… because other things are so important. It is hard to say less important.
Daniel – no motion – just looking for some feedback – something clear for the administration to do.
Peter Case – these are on the list because they all happen – they are all offensive to the people I’ve spoken with. Everyone has seen this. I’d like to se the list stay in context as a whole and work through the list of prioritizing how we roll out an action toward these things when we see them, of course there are judgment calls. We want some municipal action. This is the first step toward something actionable. Something I’ve been working on for well over a year. I love these kids. Thanks for coming out and thanks for the map. It overlaps with what I’ve been trying to do. It was heartening and disheartening.
Daniel – the list is in the background materials – use of intoxicating beverages, drugs, urination, blocking traffic, damages, loud disturbances, lighting fires, cannabis, tobacco, solicitation, physical aggression, waving a fist, hate speech, leaving animals tether, appearing unconscious, severe intoxication , storing belongings, nudity, harassment, encampments, gather in groups, and other… thanks for the list. This list of potential items includes many items that are already illegal with penalties and some enforcement. I would want to support most. Things that give me pause – using profane language? Face to face solicitation for money? Gathering in groups? That’s a bit gray.. and I have questions about exchanging items with customers?
Potter – these were examples of things people have mentioned. If you want us to focus on some we will develop that out. We could have an enhanced ordinance. It would be good to hear if these bother people or ion they are okay.
Liz – some things are not appropriate – the use of tobacco and cannabis, and gathering in groups, and string belongings beyond a carry load. Those would be problematic.
Daniel -I’ve been tracking what people are not sure about.
Potter – the idea was to identify what bothered people… it could be an ordinance, but we could do other things to influence that behavior with other techniques.
Peter Case – some are self explanatory – urination. Gathering in groups doesn’t mean anything but we know what it means and if you put it in context, just point to Flat St parking, and outside the Holstein Building. That changes what those three words mean. The carry load and use of tobacco and cannabis – fine… already laws on the books.
Franz – it would be worth explaining the larger context and what a safety zone means. I’m not sure if people are familiar with the idea. We identify things that are already legal – it is against the law. What is different? Some new ordinances, within restrictions. The big question here is enforcement. It is already agains the law, and for various reasons it is difficult or impossible to enforce. The safety zone idea would be place we would say “really really’ don’t do this stuff. I can think of lots of places we might say we are serious about this and deploy additional resources to have an impact win the street. Hard to divorce all of this from enforcement. It is integral for me.
Daniel – enforcement is a form of intervention. Public?
Richard – can we hear from the student?
Daniel – they are part of the public.
Richard – Can I ask them a question?
Youth Council – opinions on this list?
Daniel – what looks important or not, or if you want to add to it?
YC – use of intoxicating substances or drugs. It’s very like, slightly frightening to walk past someone in the street who is not in their right mind due to a substance they are using. That one is important to me. It bother me the most. The main thing with all the map sites is the use of drugs. We had a green up day and I was there with 2 others and picked up trash. I found a white peg and t was a heroin needle. I was wearing gloves. We went for someone to deal with it. That was a little scary . Along with that, we found many packages of Narcan and I couldn’t tell if they were open or not. In front of the youth council building we had bags filled with cigarette butts, and from the NEYT property. There were needles and cigarettes and pants.
Cassandra – nicotine products… if we look at safety zones we don’t want people smoking or vaping where young people congregate.
YC – encampments – if we did enforcement no encampments, where would these people go? It’s hard for them to find a place? Where would they go?
Daniel – we have a No Camping ordinance, and compassionate police and fire personnel.
Susan Belville – I’m a property manager for an Elliot Street Building and I constantly try to keep 17 families safe, and the businesses. We are discussing and alarm system throughout so businesses can help each other before police come. I have families with children. I ask people to move along. Human trafficking in front of my building. Other children live downtown, walking dogs for families, constantly being assailed by bad behaviors. I ask people to move along and keep people away from the buildings I manage. The municipal sidewalks they won’t leave. I really need some help with people asking others to move along. Doorways and sidewalks should be safe zones. I saw two people walk up to elderly people were asked for money. They couldn’t go to dinner without being accosted. I tell people I won’t give people any money. I’d like us to solve these issues so people can go to dinner peacefully.
Vince – architect – I’m excited about the new train station coming. My dream was to have an office downtown. I have a background in urban planning. I need to hire people and looked into an office downtown, but it doesn’t make sense for me to put up with the hassle. I could work in New York. My job is solving problems,. I have ideas. The parking garage has to be solved. A plaice substation, or enterprise car rental – some activity, and easy to walk to from the train station. private investment could jhelp activate it. I’d love to get involved. When you said compassionate policing I thought of Andy Griffith… maybe if the police walks round. They probably know the bad people more than the good people.
Sandy – at Morningside – I can’t really see the map. Maybe read it off and maybe we can add to that as a group? I’d love to hear brainstorming on solutions. One unpopular ideas is that you designate one park as a place to sleep – with a police presence, instead of all parks and all doorways… designate a space. Think creatively.
YC – biggest concerns – bathrooms at high school. Circle K and Walgreens, Flat ST parking lot, Harmony lot, High Street, Transportation Center,…
Daniel – good segue to locations… will you let me finish… we’ll move on to locations. Do you want to speak?
Daniel – it is super obvious that gathering in groups – more than 6 people you see an identity – people doing drugs is a group of people doing drugs. I have witnessed everything own this list. I don’t see what confuses you – everything is very obviously a problem. You increased the cost of parking at the garage. What is going to be done with the money from that? Is that a fair increase since quality and services have gone down.
Daniel Quipp – I’ll move this on to locations. Parking isn’t exactly germane, but the activity is germane…
Potter – this feedback is helpful to helping us prioritize – the drugs especially, and all of these things. The next questions is what locations?
Quipp – in the memo it speaks to a number of locations. Originally it was a Flat Street corridor . The men is also outside that zone – Plaza Park, Elliot Street, Transportation Center is not on the list, Pliny park, Gibson Aiken, The LiBrary, both shopping plazas at the ends of town with grocery stores.
Liz – there are 7 items but to that and all are child-centric but also I’d add the gas pumps and ATMS.
Richard – could students tell us how to walk to the NEYT? Would you walk it?
YC – I wouldn’t walk there alone. I’d rather contact a trusted adult to give me a ride. If it were a group of friends, I’d feel safer, but not alone. I trust myself but downtown has unknown variables, and being along from school to downtown. I still feel vulnerable without someone else there.
YC – there is a route – the faster way to my apartment goes downtown but I don’t use it. same with NEYT. I avoid downtown walking alone. I avoid any route near Walgreens and near the hospital and also by the gas station and the hill that goes up.
Peter Case – we have a good identifiable list of things. There is a small caveat with all of this – if we roll out some of these things – no trespassing. If they depend on services at Turning Point, it is next to NEYT, and we want to promote sober living… we need to actively think about it. Replying as much restorative justice. Some concerns around legally permit activities – the beer garden at Gallery Walk – we are looking at things not permitted legally.
Potter – whatever you want and where you want it…
Peter – we aren’t going to dry out downtown. Restaurants and bars can serve . That’s not my goal.
Franz – I think, well, I just wrote this… for anyone involved, if you aren;’t hearing the pain downtown, it can only mean you aren’t listening. That’s what I’ve been hearing loud and clear today. It is a flood of concern about the downtown area. Flat Street, the bridge to the Coop. From NEYT to the Museum. Other places are important, too. If we enforce in one area, it will just move. The downtown commercial district is on fire with concern about these issues. People are talking about the demise of downtown Brattleboro. If we don’t address this, we are putting Brattleboro’s future at stake.
Daniel Q – I hear Preston Lot and Flat Street. I want us to be informed by reliable data that is up to date. There are now other areas of concern.
Potter – a lot of these behaviors don’t generate calls to the police so we don’t have data. I hear us working downtown first…
Peter case – if we do this, it has to be a totality – anything that drops by the high school, elementary schools. if we do this, let’s do it once. If we play whack a mole for a while we’ll do that. I’m getting to a point… an action point here – I do want to do it once and do it right and address all the issues I’ve been inundated with. I hear everyone loud and clear.
Potter -downtown, schools, parks, … around places, or a geographic area.
Case – it is all one thing to me. If we just focus downtown and it pushes people up Williams Street. There is a500 foot bubble around the schools, and the library… it overlaps and covers the downtown. if we have this inplace for the areas outside of downtown. If we do it once we don’t have to do it again.
Liz – I look at this from a location POV – I want categories -s schools, parks, gas pumps, arms, parking lots… like zoning. There are drug free school zones but the promise hasn’t panned out. We need to renew it with vigor.
Daniel – zoom first, then the room.
Lisa Ford – thanks, I’m the Boys and Girls Club chair. A nice story to share. On Flat Street and we saw police approach someone who was drinking at the Transportation Center and take the can and dump it out. These are already enforceable deeds that you have laid out. I appreciate the effort going into this, but .. we have the capacity to enforce them with officers on patrol. Will we do this tomorrow if we call the safety zones? can we just enforce the behaviors?
Daniel – anything on or off this list is enforceable and enforced by the police department. We want to eliminate undesirable behaviors in the community.
Lisa – so if you say they are enforceable, so are safety zones where you will hire cops? Put more money? What is different?
Liz – we haven’t talked about trespassing…
George C – a sidestep on the discussion. Other towns may have other solutions. Get in touch with Portsmouth NH – didn’t see any of the things on your list while we visited there.
Dick – I don’t know why you don’t use the DID footprint for the downtown area. It extends to the Youth Theater and down Elliot Street. The other things we hear a lot about, mentioned several years ago, is seeing if we can dispose of the Transportation Center. Private ownership would allow someone to do a lot that the Town cannot do. There should be an ordinance about sleeping downtown. We don’t allow sleeping it parks by law, not enforced, but people sleep in doorways downtown. I hear what Fish is saying, but most complaints are in the DID district. The whole town is important, but I like the idea of getting data and work there. Let’s focus our resources. Putney Rd is problematic area.
Potter – we want to expand enforcement with creative interventions. We don’t have the capacity to address it all the time everywhere at once. The police are all over town all day. They’ll be at the next meeting. This is about setting up areas the community wants to work on. If you say the whole town, we’ll spread our resources. Are there areas you want us to focus on, and if it has consequences do we work somewhere else. For intervention – they could be controlled with expanding ability to issue trespass notices. If we can see it on a camera it could be cited. Creative ways to address this. This is super helpful feedback.
Bonnie – with Center Congregational Church – we need to be on the list – we have people sleeping on the lawn every day – tents. We pick ups sharps. We have been broken into. We have different programs. Children come every day and play on the lawn – we find so many needles on the lawn. We have to do it. We should be on that list. Just a couple of days ago. We found a trash bag filled with sharps and bags. This is an area. All the afghan people, the children, all around our building. Please add us to the list.
Daniel – the DID footprint is a helpful proxy.
Case – it would simplify it. Drug zones worked for a short amount of time, then it creeps back in. Nothing happens overnight. It took years and it feels like we are on fire. It won’t happen quickly. It would simplify our downtown issues.
Susan – I get animated when I speak of the problems downtown. One thing is we can’t arrest and citation our way out of this. The court system isn’t cooperating. Catch and release. They will be back on the streets again. It is a joint effort of everyone to not tolerate these behaviors. Move them along or provide them with the resources to make the change. We all need to show no tolerance. Security officers in the transportation center led to activity on the street. They’d come out when the security officer showed up and went back when they went off duty. We can’t arrest our way out of this. We have to work to not tolerate it; to not offer you pass. You are making my life more miserable.
Jeff – I reinforce what was just said. I support this initiative very strongly. And add that this is human behavior. I work with addictions. These are humans with these problems. I’ve sat with people who have these problems – all classes. To get better from addiction, accountability and people presented with consequences, so if Brattleboro works to become an accountable community – we can have nonjudgement and accountability, and a density to the services people need to getting what they need to get out of problems…this is very focused on accountability, but keep in mind who the people are the objective is to influence and what et=they need to change.
Bethany – hi, NEYT rep. Shout out to the students – really proud to see you speaking up for what you need to make the world better. I appreciate the process that has been happening. Attempt are being tried and we are trying to figure things out. It’s huge. The big thing that I want to encourage is the presentation a couple weeks ago about data tracking was fantastic and what struck me was that the deputy chief said if people don’t call, they don’t know there is a problem. people are just doing the work themselves without calling the police to help data track. There is a reason we should call. I saw tonight at NEYT, and there were three people shooting up. I didn’t call the police bit told staff to check for needles in the morning. The majority is doing the work themselves and not calling the police.
Daniel – one thought – should I call the police and decide not to, and maybe I feel unclear if it is worth calling. Maybe there could be a reporting mechanism that doesn’t need a response.
Peter – just call the tipline. Get over it. I’m serious. That helps this community. If you can’t report it.. no vote, no opinion. The phone number is easy. Don’t have to leave your name. Chief Hardy is a huge fan of the hipline. Another pin in the map to heighten awareness.
Kate – executive director of Downtown Brattleboro Alliance – thanks to all. Speaking up about downtown issues. I reinforce that the DID is a great place to start and not only does this help our friends and neighbors and business owners, the people who live downtown, and our historic downtowns are our arts and cultural centers – if there isn’t confidence that it is a good investment, then this is a real problem. We invite tourists to experience this. It is critical that it is vibrant and thriving. if this adds additional deterrents and adds more accountability, then I’m all in.
Daniel – starting to lose people, it is 9:42, the conversation doesn’t end tonight… John had gotten feedback. He’ll bring this back I’ll see if he can speak to interventions….
Potter – I appreciate all the feedback – we need to figure it out together. I’ve heard great ideas and we can start to land this plane. For interventions – people had ideas and suggestions – citations, new ordinances against trespassing, civil fines. We can do some of these things. Second, we could do a communications plan. How can we express to people that certain behaviors are unacceptable. A communications campaign? We don’t do this here… how do we convey that? Third thing is providing additional services to people who are suffering. Want the Town to work on this path? Preferences? What would you like?
Peter – so, I guess as I think through this, we can’t arrest our way out of this, but the whole idea of this thing is to make it difficult for people to be difficult. If we do things like no trespassing – for x amount of time in the DID. What if they live there? Fines that never get paid? A messaging campaign? Not just the police. It’s the whole community.
Richard – a small band-aid. there is one page resource guide from the Town Manager’s office. All the resources in the community. Get some and carry them around. If they ask for money, hand them one of these, not money. This is the best you can do in a situation like that, and you tell them to be accountable for their own behavior.
Daniel – want an ordinance?
Richard – if it covers something like that…
Liz – Lots of interesting things that should be read. Whether to do more social services, I’m against that. There are so many that already exist. Project CARE – use the resources we have. In favor of a community campaign and really like the doctor said about accountability. It fits into the other initiatives we want to do – police data and core mental health services and the people who can’t be reached any other way.
Franz – not opposed to ordinances but the devil is in the details – how will it work in practice. Not real optimistic that it will work. What can we do? We need increased police downtown on foot or bikes. A community effort to change how people think is very important. A key question for me – what is the motivation for those downtown doing bad behaviors – they ask for moony and get money. And long as they get it, they continue. It doesn’t help. It enables bad behaviors. A community effort to change thinking about how things are working. I was in Keene and heard what they do differently. They send more law enforcement, and people in the community, set standards and establish limits. I’d throw in better bathroom facilities downtown. need to provide for needs, hold ourselves and others accountable.
Daniel – a draft ordinance to consider has interest. We are talking about humans and relationships. I spent years not moving toward recovery causing some chaos in my life and my family’s life… what allowed for me to change was having some moments – chaos led me to seek some help, and then seeing the benefit of making changes in my life. Needs lot of support and care. We do a lot of othering. These are our people and we need to care for them and hold them accountable. They can be hard to love. I lost a brother in law to a drug overdose a couple of months ago. We can try penalties, but we have police and fire pms that knows the community. They have a relationship with them. Service workers, too. Not everyone is perfect, but not everyone struggling is a monster. There is a lot more to say but we are inching forward. We can have better impacts than we are currently having.
YC – encourage you and ask you to reach out to us for assistance. Don’t think that this goes over our heads. We have stories to share with you. We are doing great work and the only thing that keeps us from spreading out is not enough adult listening ears. There is only so much we can do. We’d n=be interested to have you at one of our meeting to share more.
YC – also, being part of this and the high school, what you are pointing out, we have pointed out, too. We don’t have the voice to speak out. maybe you could speak to our principals.
Steve – safety zones – it sounds like defining them is a good idea to start with, but crime can move to different areas… we are talking about stepped up enforcement wherever the crime is. The goal is to deal with the crime. People have mentioned police win the parking garage and that’s a good idea. Some spoke of people on the street. People have harassed me for money and I will talk with them. I told that person Brattleboro has food banks. I discuss things with them. They don’t need to shop downtown for free food. Try the food bank. that’ the appropriate place. I have sympathy for them but we are trying to save the downtown. Talk to the people asking for money and respond.
– thanks to the young people for speaking up. In preparation for the meeting – we have lots of the ordinances in place, we just need to enforce them. I think we have the no trespassing. Research the town ordinances – a new ordinance would involve lawyers and cost money.
Nicole – Twice Upon A Time – glad this is going on. I deal with this every day. I confront them every day. I fear for my safety a lot. I grew up here. My mom are up here. We put time and effort and work to being a meaningful part of Brattleboro, and part of downtown. It really is not feeling safe. My license plate stolen, gas siphoned, wallet stolen, merchandise stolen. I wouldn’t feel right if I didn’t;t stand up. This is happening to real people. It’s happening to me and my livelihood. People should not give. It causes a death, or people to get hurt. Give to charity – groundworks, SEVCA and others. Help those who want to be helped and not others. I want better for this town. I grew up here and I work my butt off. I’ll be at the next meeting with a letter and a petition and a solution. We all need to keep sharps out of the parks. We can do better.
daniel – I appreciate all the contributions tonight. We will move on to committee appointments and will continue this in future meetings.
Heartened and Disheartened, Indeed
Thanks for the reporting, Chris. Great summary of what’s going on, and I’m glad to see the young ones speaking up. These problems aren’t just ours and I hope we can get advice from places that have successfully dealt with these already.
Public Safety was on the agenda and no one in law enforcement seemed to be present
Unserious.
re: no one in law enforcement seemed to be present
They were at the selectboard meeting a couple of weeks ago and gave a presentation about where they’re getting called to and how often. It’s worth checkout out on BCTV, as it was the first week I can remember when cgrotke took a (well deserved!) break from transcribing the meetings for us here. (Thank you!)
The cops identified major hotspots (places familiar to anyone who watches Hank’s Brattleboro news on Youtube) as well as some of the legal causes that lead to catch-and-release of the people doing the most to make others miserable downtown. They also showed how – like many other places – it’s a very small number of people who account for a large share of the trouble, and many of them refuse services. Some have been trespassed from basically everywhere, including places like Groundworks.
All of this reminded me of a good article I read recently and from which I will quote a bit that feels very familiar:
https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/you-call-that-compassion?r=1ii4c&utm_medium=ios&triedRedirect=true
“The trouble, or so I’ve been told, is that like so many of the homeless she refuses help when offered, and both the policy and the culture of institutionalized do-gooding prevent the people who might save her life from doing anything about it. To force help on dying people must not be considered. And for the current generation of said do-gooders, that’s the end of the story. Nothing to be done. For reasons that I find impossible to understand, just utterly senseless, many progressives have decided that forcing help on the homeless and the sick is a worse outcome than simply letting them die. And letting them die is exactly what we’re doing.”
so the cops spoke a couple of weeks ago
They weren’t there to hear feedback when Public Safety is their purported purpose.
A one-way conversation is no conversation.
It's an ongoing process.
Watch more meetings than just this one.
They took lots of public comments and answered lots of questions from the public the meeting before last. The police will be at the next meeting. It does not appear – at all – like the cops are ignoring the public or engaging in a one-way conversation. But, if you want to be butthurt, be my guest!
Me, take a break? Never!
The police and enforcement issues downtown are also on the next agenda…