A Juneteenth eve Selectboard meeting stated late and went long. The board raised parking rates – 44% by one member of the public’s estimates – and voted to end free downtown parking on Sundays. They also voted to make it easier and quicker to raise rates in the future.
Winston-Prouty campus housing was discussed as was public feedback on trash, recycling and compost.
Preliminaries
They start quite late. The board appears, then disappears, then returns to the zoom feed. No sound. Then sound. Then they disappear again and take the sound with them. Then they come back with sound. 6:21+
Chair Daniel Quipp – we did committee interviews before the meeting. I’ll be brief. A holiday tomorrow and some hot weather. I reflect on both of them on my privileges to have air conditioning in car, home, work… not everyone does. On Thursday we had our goal setting retreat which was really great and came up with some priorities we’ll discuss July 9th.
Town Manager John Potter -it is hot. This is a cooling off center. Hot temperatures are forecasted. Stay safe, check in on family and neighbors. There are cooling sites around town. Website has info. Diverse and demanding Police Department work recently – death of a toddler and caught a bank robber yesterday. Juneteenth holiday will have an arts show at the municipal center. This year we feature a local artists. VT Community Foundation has given more than $1million to Brattleboro. That helps Rec and Parks to bering opportunities to the public. The pool is open for the season and open everyday. Swim lessons coming up. Rec and Parks also taking registration for summer camps. Town Assessor says the Grand List lodged today for viewing. Library says it will close 1 pm Thursday for a network transition. Upcoming events – Fuller park discussion at the park, groundbreaking for new Amtrak station, open house pool feasibility study meeting, and a public meeting on Canal Street corridor study. Trash pickup will be earlier this week – have things out by 5:30am.
Public –
Kate O’Connor – This is a fun one. I’ll break a rule. I want to talk about the 4th of July parade – it is on the 4th and at 10 am. email brattleborogoesfourth@gmail.com – all volunteer effort. Rain or shone, from Flat Street to the Commons.
Dick Degray – two weeks ago I asked about cameras at High and Main – has the rap been sent out? Can you give me an update. Disappointing to hear you hadn’t done anything on something voted on last fall. To say nothing has been done. I was disappointed with board members for not following it up. All but Davis voted for that. It is your responsibility to follow up, not a citizen. Not scolding you, but disappointed in you. Not to have anything done was really disappointing and hope it doesn’t happen again with issues of safety. There is a lot of activity in Plaza Park. People smoking crack and using the park for their facilities to urinate. It is disappointing to see that.. Thank you.
Potter – a correction, I didn’t say nothing had been done, they just haven’t been is stalled yet. The board has been apprised. We have issues with contracting on that project. An issue beyond the control of the Town. Now we’ve decided to move on and have had new conversation with a new vendor in a better way than we originally hoped.
– as a resident and someone who works downtown. I am facilities manager at Holstein Association. Is anyone on the board or in police – is anyone concerned about certain individuals roaming our town – around the coop, in the park below our building – daily open use, drug use, sleeping int he park, the trash that is left behind. As someone who works downtown, it has migrated to our property. I need to deal with our private property and the police department – but there is constant late night drug use, urinating, same person sleeping there. What is the Town’s approach? The optics aren’t good. People who come to town see the activity. People will get hurt. I saw an impaired couple staggering down the middle of the travel lane. Does the Town have an approach? Maybe we need a new approach?
Daniel – maybe we can talk about this at a coming meeting. Anyone else?
Consent Agenda
A. Forest Fire Warden Reappointment
B. Childcare Tax Credit Payment Allocation
C. Brattleboro Goes Forth Parade Permit – Approve
D. Tree Warden Reappointment – Dan Adams
E. Outside Consumption Permit – Plated
F. Second Class Liquor License and Tobacco License – SKJ II Corporation
Franz pulls the second item (Childcare Tax Credit Payment Allocation) for the end.
Peter – is there something minor you need to keep in on the content agenda?
Franz – not a minor clarification – how now vs earlier in the budget process and the policy…
Daniel – that will be item G. Around 9 pm.
Ye verily consented en masse to remaining items.
FY25 Parking Fund Budget – Approve
Potter – Patrick has been doing most of the work on this. While we have a complicated task, it is important to do it at this meeting so we can implement by July.
Quipp – there is also a question about whether we can use cash… also tonight? (yes)
Patrick Moreland – important to pass the budget tonight, and get a sense of whether you’d like cash or cash free. I won’t go over everything from the last meeting. Within the budget we reviewed expenses are $1,015,866 . So we are talking about different rates and revenues. Dick Degray pointed out parking rate adjustments will take a while to take effect. IN any options we discuss, the first three months will have the same rates as today. Only the last 9 months matter. So any for 100% full recovery – that will happen in the second year.
Liz – that is where gain and loss comes from in the last row?
Moreland – that’s the cash position of the fund. Option 5, for example, provides $927k the first year, then year 2 over a million.
Quipp – interesting to note that even with 100% cost recovery, our cash balance decreases each year. How is that possible.
Moreland – Option 5 again – $927k in and over a million out – we won’t get there in the first year so it will draw done.
Liz – we are spending money from the fund in the first 3 months?
Moreland – we need to account for depreciation even though it isn’t cash. I wouldn’t look for those two to match up. So, while we need to change the rates, Bob Fisher was consulted to make parking rate changes easier – it could say look to the Town website for the parking rate sheet, and if we rewrite the ordinance, we could change rates by simple majority vote of the board (3 people). Or we could have a slow process for changing the rates. Since writing this, perhaps no one is interested in a partial cost recovery – we could cut out some options?
Moreland – the three full cost recovery – 4, 5 and a new 6. Options 4 and 5 raise the short term rate to $150 from $1. Option 4 has the parking system works 7 days a week. …
Quipp – can the audience see this stuff? Could you pass them around? This is detailed stuff.
Moreland – I could make more copies.
Quipp – let’s hang on for the copies… Patrick’s beard is looking nice.
Richard Davis – you mentioned changing the ordinance to do this more quickly…
Quipp – we’ll discuss it. Let’s get the copies, hear the presentation then discuss the rates, the ordinance, and whether it should be cashless. So the beard isn’t too much in the hot weather?
Liz – he goes from an air conditioned office to an air conditioned car…
Moreland – Option 4, 5 and new 6. Difference between 4 and 5. Raise permits to $675, reserve permits to $1000, Elm St to $350, and functions 7 days a week. Raise citations to $15 a year. It should recover fully in 2 years. Option 5 has 6 days a week. It requires we raise long term rates to 75 cents and permits are $735. So 6 and 7 day a week options. Early today I was asked if we could do full recovery that leaves short term parking rates at $1. It is full recovery. Short term rates $1. Long term rates $1. That wipes out the differentiation – same in High Grove as on main Street. Permits to $950, Reserve permits to $1200. 6 day a week system. The question – why is it such that it takes all of these increase to offset a small increase in short term… short term parking drives the system. There are three option – one is 7 day, one is 6 day, and one maintains rates for short term at $1.
Quipp- so that’s four options – let’s discuss.
Richard – no added expense for an extra day for personnel?
Patrick – we could but we could split up the schedules and staff could work more independently. No additional staff needed.
Franz Reichsman – what about Option 7 – the rates the same as Option 5… the point would be – if we go to kiosks with no cash options, we could expand the duties of the parking employees somewhat. I’d rather see a decrease in the number of parking employees. If we stick to 6 days and got rid of cash, could we do with 4 instead of 5 employees? To keep rates lower?
Daniel – board members – is that something you want to consider (no).
Peter case – try to digest the thought. I would put out that Option 6 exists because I brought it up at the last meeting. My response to keeping short term rates the same was to help promote business and coming in to downtown. Right now the optics and perceptions isn’t enticing, and doubling parking rates creates a bigger problem. Now I see that permit costs have doubled… to park long term in the parking garage. We are going in the wrong direction for people working downtown. This could be a hardship. We could go to Option 58. I’m sorry I didn’t see this sooner. Disappointed. Can we .. rates have to go up. I get it. Not pushing against that, but what does adding a 7th day to option 6, can we keep permit costs down?
Quipp – two off the menu suggestions. Patrick can you work with us on this this evening?
Patrick – doing the calculation is real time is difficult – to be exact – take a break and I’ll build a model. But I noticed that Option 4 and 5 and 6 – the revenue is largely the same. You could pass a budget today with $937k of revenue, and you could work out the details at your next meeting. Doesn’t clog up the meeting tonight to watch me make models. If that makes sense to you. To Peter’s point – that would be detrimental to anyone parking downtown – employees – that will be debilitating. If we want a full cost recover system , and not touching short term rates, it has to come from somewhere. Adding 7th day doesn’t do too much.
Quipp – you say we adopt a budget with revenue at $937k – will we have public consider action of the rates?
Patrick – yes.
Liz – I like Option 4 – a lot of good compromising elements in Option 4 that perhaps it is Sunday to allow for modifications. Two weeks ago it was $2 and now it is $1.50. A more reasonable annual cost and long term rates. I like that a lot. I think it is a reasonable compromise and it is a significant savings to employees in town. This is a user fee and we want to make sure people pay for parking so taxpayers don’t pay for parking.
Franz – the proposal I just made reconciles the various issues – A more affordable parking system – the way to do it is to spend less. We could save money a cutting expenses – an employee. The new electronic system and no cash, means less hours needed, and we’d be remiss if we didn’t look at it to get the rates we want.
Quipp – need the parking budget, the ordinance updating, and cashless. Liz likes Option 4, Franz likes reducing staff,
Moreland – within the employees in the parking fund – a parking enforcement coordinator, two parking officers and two custodians. You are talking about a parking enforcement officer. One person can’t patrol for 6 days. can’t even do a full day – 9 to 6 pm. There are staggered schedule to cover the full day and the full 6 days.
Quipp – I don’t feel comfy reducing staff right now – if 3 of you want it
Franz – why?
Quipp – not prepared and don’t think it would be smart.
Case – losing any parking person is not something I’m in favor of. Further, and maybe this is minutiae at this point, but again, the doubling of long term parking is something – this aggression shall not stand – Option 4 if I’m reading this correctly. This would be $400 raised to $675. Since we haven’t raised it since…
Moreland – since I started in 2011.
Case – a 50 cent increase to downtown meters ain’t a horrible compromise and if we do a cashless system… I’m not in favor of raising those spaces at all. And Option 4 is 7 days. I’m going to ruminate.
Richard – I want to point out the 7 day option has more than just financial implications – access to shoppers! I heard that Sundays a lot of people who want to shop can’t find parking spaces. It would look like another day.
Case – If I can speak to it…
Liz – a benefit?
Richard – yes, better for local business.
Case – I have come in on Sunday, parked, got a bagel, went into the shop, and looked at parking habits of others. Adding a 7th day is a reasonable adjustment.
(Pay to go to church! – CG)
Quipp – no one wants to raise rates but we have to be responsible to the fund.
Dick Degray – first thing I saw in Option 6 was the fines were different…
Moreland – in 4 and 5 the citations go up to $15. In Option 6 it goes to $20.
Degray – because I don’ts the old budget, I’m guessing – fines is about $90-100k? In the budget? ($105k) And by raising the fines by $5 we will generate $35k?
Moreland – that won’t go into effect until the 4th month. They would stay as is for 3 months, then go up in FY26.
Degray – up to $155k (moreland – yes) I’m a string proponent of 7 day parking. Over my 25 years on Main Street, parking is taken by local resident that live downtown and people who want to come down and park for free. It is an inconvenience to merchants. We are a tourist town. We are giving tourists free parking. People check to see if they have to pay on Sunday. I hope you go with Option 4. It benefits the permit people that live downtown. They move into Harmony lot or closer to their house and it takes 20 cars to fill it. People will circle for 15 minutes. Not everyone understand what an enterprise fund is – it has to pay for itself. I don’t want to have to pay for free parking. School tax will be 13.5%…
Susie Wagner – As I was hearing this I was hoping to hear about accessibility – I hope an accessibility lens is consider with any of these options – for disabilities, for people who use cash, etc. – tickets at $20?! It is a poor tax for people who are local. Many disabled people have placards, but spots are taken. people who need longer time to use a spot due to their disabilities. It should be a lens. I’m hearing how tourists can afford this… this should be looked at by the majority but by the most vulnerable who have too use this. I’d like that to be at the forefront.
Fidel – hourly rates – will parking be available for shorter increments?
Moreland – yeah – they are currently. We don;t require you to park for two hours.
Case – handicap placards aren’t just for handicap spaces – they can park anywhere without having to pay.
Oscar Heller – Opportunities for public comment are few and far between. Not sure I should be out off… I like the full recovery options 4 and 5. The benefits of Sunday outweigh costs – our health of the downtown is important, but I want to say that if we add parking to Sunday – that might be someone who works on Sunday and got a free day – someone is losing something, but it is still worth it.
Quipp – Board – some consensus around Option 4?
Liz – I make motion to adopt budget with revenue of $926.7k.. Option 4… and adopt the capital parking improvement fund.
Case – I have finished ruminating and I can support it, with the caveat that the Town is clear and concise when this happens. Put signs on meters this in effect or leave them there.. oh, no meters.. so maybe we leave them up to put signs.
Richard – adopt #4 with a FAQ page with information about what this means for someone parking downtown. I’ve hear disinformation – cashless and credit card fees…
Quipp – we want to know about what budget to adopt.
Richard – if we adopt this… I feel like we’ve had enough time. Is it too quick or OK?
Case – I’ve heard from people. I think .. if we are dealing with adults, prices tend to go up. The biggest question is what is an enterprise fund and how does it work?
Quipp – this is a big change – Sunday parking charges. Some people parking for free are visiting merchants and restaurants. None of this has… benefits to everyone. Things will get harder for some. We have a responsibility to treat this as it should pay for itself. We are funding this with user fees, so we have to select fees that are reasonable. The community will tell us if we did the right thing.
Franz – I can live with any of these, people will adjust. I see the as one lump basket proposals. Surpiosed the board has so little interest in actually saving money. To me it would make sense to take a longer look at things. I don’t see support for that. I think it would be a better approach. How could we save money rather than pick from this basket of deplorable.
Frick – I’m late. Sounds like a move to eliminate cash? (that is next) I would urge the board to maintain some cash option. Not everyone wants or can use a credit card.
Quipp- Liz’s motion…
4-0-1 (Franz abstains)
Quipp – we’ve adopted the budget in time. Should the system be cashless? Any context?
Moreland – Administration has discussed the activities of our staff – are we putting them in harms’s way – folks carry large buckets of coins – setting them up to be victimized in a hold up, but it is laborious and could lead to worker’s comp claims. In the working life of longest employed parking person has never been held up or injured, but we like to think about this and if we didn’t ask them to do it they could do broader parking enforcement in Town. Could help us in a new way if we change parking to sport trash collection. (??) There is a day when cash is antiquated. Now might be a good time to transition.
Liz – Can this be staged – can we decide to keep cash for a year, or will it mess up your models?
Moreland – new kiosks would have cash accepting apparatus – machines would be cheaper…
Liz – we could change them in a year? (yes)
Moreland – those are the parts that break, so there will be a savings for not replacing them.
Richard – if enforcement people aren’t dealing with money – the fine revenue would go up. any sense of how many people who park all the time are not getting fined.
Moreland – someone parking in space and not paying and not getting a ticket…
Richard – so they will have time to write more fines..
Liz – fines went down with kiosks.
Quipp – we want an easy system for paying. No one will love the rate increase. Or the water rates up. And taxes going up. I got lots of calls from people to keep cash options for now.
Case – I’m impacted by credit cards and people who pay with their watch. I take in thousands of dollars and none of it is in cash. That’s different than throwing a quarter in a meter to get a cup of coffee. Either way is ok with me. I’m old and like having a cash option, but I see a long term cash is not king anymore. We will need to do it. It is inevitable.
Richard – we have a system that offers app and credit card – we’ll have a significant drop in the amount of cash being used. The amount of cash will be an indication of its popularity.
Franz – we’d do this to increase efficiencies.
Quipp – they only collect from a couple of kiosks…
Liz – we are literally nickel and dime-ing the public… but in the spirit of compromise to not change this would be a benefit to the public.
Degray – it will take no time to collect from the kiosks – they’ll drive from kiosk to kiosk. We haven’t had a robbery. If we are that desperate we need officers downtown and more cameras for more security. In a year you might make some changes when you find out how much you do bring in on a Sunday.
Quipp – not a lot of appetite for cashless…. vote?
Samantha Cliss
5-0
Quipp – okay, how to set parking rates – should they be in the ordinances in detail or should it reference them elsewhere…
Samantha Cliss – I am andrew tate and you’re a f*****G N****** (Zoom bomb!)
Franz – I am unfamiliar with thinking this through – it sounds good. but for other funds we tend to do it… it doesn’t have to be through an ordinance. I wouldn’t want us to move to something I’m unsure of.
Quipp – There is a town attorney opinion – that he suggested another way.
Potter – we have Rec and Parks fee schedules outside, and others inside ordinances.
Franz – good enough for me.
Richard – I feel there may be a downside for public accountability. If the board can increase rates it will happen more quickly and run the risk of not having enough public engagement.
Liz – a motion – to keep them out of ordinances. I’m in favor. It is a simple convenient change and the same public discussion will be available.
Case – would it comes as a first reading and second reading?
Quipp – no – that is for ordinances. For this, it could be done in one meeting.
Case – would that be a way to address what Richard is thinking. We can talk them into a circular dream. Everyone should be able to weight in. Could we make it a first and second reading?
Quipp – then just retain what we currently have. We haven’t change parking rates…
Moreland – roughly 5 years ago there was a minor change to offset the credit card processing of smart meters.
Quipp – keep things as it is, but do every year?
Potter – we could bring a fee schedule with a budget – it is whether you want to discuss it four times or build some efficiencies.
Liz – we’ll have two more conversations on this?
Franz – we can always have two meetings of discussing – we could do it like an ordinance or not.
Quipp – public?
Degray – you put the agenda out there. All you are doing is expediting implementation. Now it takes 3 months to take effect – With the new system it can take effect immediately in the new year. I don’t feel the public will be out of the conversation. They’ll know the parking system is on the agenda. If you do adopt something, it happens at start off new fiscal year.
Tom – I support an annual budget review consideration – the minor change – from 2011 – $1 is now $1.43. We’re doing an increase to keep things up to date. If it was just done yearly, it would be more bitesized – a 44% jump. Some categories you’ve doubled and some up by 25%. You could have just increased things by inflation. That would be palatable.
Franz – so we’ll pass the first reading tonight? No? Then that is perfect.
5-0
Quipp – we have attended to all parking fund business.
DeWitt Grant Close Out Public Hearing
Quipp – a closeout public hearing. My first one. I need to OPEN the public meeting, and thus it is so. Megan Suhadolc from M&S Development is here to talk about the project.
Megan – we were the consultants hired to administer the development. Sky if you want to talk about the project…
Sky – it was for 15 affordable housing units in former grocery warehouse (and Sanel) – we used grants fund and other funding sources to create the units, a mix of studios 1 and 2 bedrooms, plus a coworking space. Could not have happened without support of the town.
Megan – that was spot on…
Quipp – any members of the public? (no) Board
Franz – I’m wondering if there is anything that you learned during the process about converting commercial to residential space, and do you have future plans?
Sky – we learned a lot. Learned not to do it again. It was really, really difficult. Took 5 years in total, and very onerous. The program had lots of strings that made things difficult, plus the pandemic era, plus our costs went up… we’ll take on a building in the Esty Organ complex next.
Quipp – interesting…
Franz – you forgot your lesson?
Sky – we don’t have any options.
Franz – any other things the Town could do to help?
Sky – the Town govt is not an impediment. Redeveloping Town properties could be something interesting to look at, but otherwise.. here is one thing – the governor just vetoed … a bill… property taxes…
Quipp – we’re losing your audio…
Quipp – professionally I heeled with some paperwork to help people get into this housing, and there is a real benefit there. It has mixed income levels and am grateful folks like you are engaged in these difficult projects. Public?
Liz – we should mention we are closing out… this paragraph… we supported the application to the VCDF and then the revolving loan fund added $300k. The magnitude of the state and local funds is important.
Liz – I move to close the hearing
Moreland – no motion required…
Winston-Prouty Housing Project Update
Quipp – maybe I should prove some context – The Selectboard authorized a VCDP grant and the fund hired an engineer to evaluate the water and sewer infrastructure to construct hundreds of units… public hearing is open.
Chloe Leary from Winston Prouty – Town applied in 2021.
Chrissy Haskins – the water sewer evaluation is part of a larger effort to add significant housing. This was to evaluate feasibility for water and sewer and develop cost estimates. 90k gallons a day. Does the Town have the capacity to serve this? Yes, the Town can serve the proposed development. We looked at existing gravity sewer connecting to maple St with no know issues. Water connects on Maple Street. There is a booster pump due to low pressure, but pressures are still low. The Town’s infrastructure the were goes from Maple to the plant via gravity. The evaluation showed some hydraulic capacity concerns. The Town can handle the addition flows accr0ing to town staff. The water to the campus can be supplied. water pressure is compliant 35 psi at the main on Maple street. We looked at alternatives for infrastructure on campus – on town staff there are no know issues but will confirm. On campus side, existing piping may need to be moved or extended to serve addition development. A new booster pump on campus would be required. There are other $10 million alternatives that we rejected. Pump station is more cost effective. Can be constructed in phases. Water main on campus is similar. Total project cost in 2024 from $6.4 million + for water and sewer. There may be efficiencies to save costs once site plan is finalized. Happy to take questions.
Quipp – thanks. Public first.
Liz – let me ask a question…
Quipp – are you the public?
Liz – the point is to close out the grant, so questions about wastewater aren’t germane.
Quipp – the hearing is about the funds and how they were used and the public can comment.
Moreland – HUD pays close attention. If an audience showed up to say this is horrible, they’d pay attention to that.
Quipp – we’ll hear from the board as well. Seeing no interest, board?
Liz – I’m glad that this grant was given and happy that this report was conducted and we like the Dufrane Group
Moreland – My two cents – one thing that makes development difficult is unknowns – and this takes one piece of a large puzzle to make it flip from unknown to known.
Franz – I don’t read a lot of engineering studies but this is very readable and it accomplished the goals.
Quipp – a lot of labor here.
grant closed out..
Winston-Prouty Housing Project Update
Chloe Leary from Winston Prouty – we had to start somewhere and fe got feedback from lots of different sources, so the next step in August of last year we hired a consultant – the Town helped us with support – we did a master plan and lots of other studies. Lots of progress. Could we do this development using debt and equity and some of the ways people fund housing – like tax credits – can we simplify a complicated project and do it differently. Some funding streams are competitive. And, or vision is that anyone should be able to live at the Prouty campus – and some funding limits who can live there. We want broadly mixed income – as we looked at how to pay for it. We can do it, with modular construction. Multifamily units that are modular that cost less and can get the density we want – $263k per unit hard and soft costs – a very low cost per unit. There will be a need for some subsidies – the main part of campus – 180 acres – we aren’t going to buy;d all over – we want to build a neighborhood where it is already developed. We think we can do the next iteration. Do we really want 300 units of the same housing? We are working with small scale developers thinking about mix and match housing to meet different needs. The next conceptual design will be available soon to show everyone, then we can do final design. The project will happen, but not yet. How we will pay for it is on our mind. Happy to share we got news from Sander’s office – potential funding. Looking for ways to pull the money together to keep moving. Right now, the next 6 months are finishing design and looking at funding. Soft costs are hard to raise. What is the timeline? I hope we put shovel in the ground in 2025. We need to move forward and keep the momentum. It’s .. we own the property and have control over it. We need the community behind us. It is a unique value proposition – close to town. It is a community asset, with values that are important, but we can’t do it alone. The #1 concern we’ve heard – traffic. Traffic study talks about volume and math and whether the roads can handle it. There is problem now with speeding on maple. More people will move in. The report says there are lots of ways to do traffic calming. Something will have to change anyway… what will parking requirements be in 2050? Traffic is a problem now. Other than that, people have been touched by the housing crisis – people who can’t find places or kids who can’t move back. There is a lot of support. We are a trusted community partner.
Quipp – how many units and how many people?
Leary – 300 units – 2.25 per unit? I’m not sure…
Quipp – there is usually more than one person in a unit – could be 500 people living here when more housing is available.
Leary – the housing study said we need 500 units. The housing continuum opening up is important, too. A healthy housing continuum. Affordable for a lot of people.
Richard – the logistics of a project this size – would you not put a shovel in the ground without funding for the entire project, or do the water and sewer and hope for funding?
Leary – a little concurrently – Phase 1. Not all at once. Success to get success. Funding for Phase 1 would help us get Phase 2. waiting for the funding or the whole project … Phase 1 could be water and sewer.
Liz – I think you do have the community’s support. The mixed income community – there is a lot of discussion about getting slower cost unit. You also will have expensive units and middle units and low cost units? People need to keep in mind it will be all ranges and that is what makes the project work. We show what rents could be for various levels. I’d like us to be skewed toward market rates. Funding streams – some want 50% units in this range… but we want this to reflect who we really are.
Liz – our planning department says we need workforce housing, too.
Franz – so, hi. This is the third or fourth presentation I’ve been to. I live right down the hill from there. Every time I hear you talk you say the right things, but in between – I was unaware that a traffic study was done. My neighbors are terribly upset about the additional traffic this would bring. Lots of stewing under the surface. Everything tonight sounds right, but on the ay home, I’ll wonder if you are out of your mind
Leary – you already think that…
Franz – but then it goes away. You need to demonstrate success with a small chunk – 300 units is nuts unless you can show you can do 30 units. That’s what the neighbors would tolerate. Too much and you’ll get substantial opposition. It represents a threat and it has felt that way. Do it in little pieces and go on… it is great to hear that it will be in Phases. The big deal is hard to support.
Leary – we’ve talked about that before. There is delay with neighborhood meetings. We had to do plans, then grappled with what next to present. We hope to share the site design, then we can disc how to phase it. The delay – we’re not quite ready to say “here is the thing”
Quipp – getting late…
Frick – I love that you brought up vehicle sharing – how much we spend on them, and parking – one thing you haven’t said is energy usage and longevity of the buildings. You can build without requiring space heating in this climate. We also have the rich earth institute –
Leary – for the future – that is on the table. Making the pieces work – we have talked about phases and pilot programs – as we finalize thing sit will become more clear. We do want to build for longevity. Happy to talk to anyone about anything.
Degray – $78 million for housing? I don’t think the revolving loans fund has that much. I used to live across the street. If I saw this I’d be out of my mind. Just that one main entry way for all those people?
Leary – yes, conceptually, we’d change the intersection in some way, (or a light or four way stop).
Degray – what impact on the school system?
Leary – hopefully more students!
Degray – more students in the schools… less students would mean lower taxes. More students…
Leary – it would decrease the cost per student if we had more, theoretically.
Quipp – so…
Solid Waste Program Public Feedback
Quipp – John take us through this?
Potter – we did some public engagement, summarized in the memo. A series of focus groups with interested citizens, and also did a survey that got over 400 responses. From that we took away several consistent themes- people really like recycling and compost programs and want to see them continue and fear impacts to them. Also support and satisfaction with PAYT approach. Not consistent with what our vendor provides… they’d like robot arms and new arts for dumping into trucks. Lots of info in here from the public. People would like large collection… and more. Happy to go into details on anything here tonight to see if we gone enough for community engagement to get a feeling for what people are looking for? We have had ongoing conversations with the one vendor that replied – Casella – current service at current pricing until we work this out, but want to know asap if you want their services.
Moreland – to reiterate – what impressed me.. first, it was John’s idea to do focus groups and it was a fabulous idea. Hour and a half, complicated discussions. The takeaway to be sure is compost and recycling are very important and a source of pride in the community. Really really hit home. Second – a large item collection is wanted. After that, the data and feedback gets a bit more murky – a lot of people thought PAYT required bags – it could be done in other ways – could be carts. The method for how we achieve PAYT depends on the contract model we choose, discussed in backup materials. People don’t want large carts everywhere. After that… I’d say the main takeaways are the recycling and compost is important, and we want to look at standard vs franchise contracts, and if we collect weekly or every other week. Feedback not so clear here. Weekly simplifies things – there are pros and cons to each. The we come back with pricing and options, we can discuss weekly or every other week.
Quipp – we got feedback, you summarized it. Happy to get the info.
Liz – the feedback was amazing and I really appreciate everyone who participated. It was all helpful, and I liked the outcome. My only question is about weekly vs every other week. Will that make us lose our progress to reduce our waste stream?
Potter – several people said they could have trash pickup once a month.
Liz – not this week.
Potter – design a program to meet everyone’s needs…
Liz – I’d like to align these precepts with the costs.
Peter – this is nothing that we are putting forward – it is incumbent to com[ply with what our hauler wants going forward?
Potter – we haven’t awarded anything yet.
Franz – there are ways to do this on our own without Casella. The can’t dictate the outcome. We can reject their offers if we decide it is best.
Peter – not a door I’m looking to open up. If we design something that meets the needs of Brattleboro, is it likely caseload says “keep it as is”
Potter – they aren’t offer the service we want.
Peter – how deep into these conversations.. there is feedback – how much is within our control given the current construct…
Moreland – mechanized collection (Casella) vs PAYT (not Casella, VT state requirements). Collection and disposal of trash need to be based on weight or volume of trash. It can be achieved in different ways. Not Casella who is asking us to do PAYT… they” discuss all sorts of objections., They’d like mechanized collection. It will be complicated and expensive but reasons they’d like to do it. If trash was in carts vs mountains of trash bags… would that be better? Not all a consequence of the vendor.
Peter – PAYT lightened our loads for disposal costs. It is quite costly. We do have a conversation that can be had…
Franz – Casella said they will not keep this system, and they will go with mechanized carts. If we go with them we make that change. Here are some handouts from me – it is a metric, to make the different variables into a format where I could look at them simultaneously.
Quipp – I understand the point…
Franz – My point is there are lots of variables here. Like looking at parking options. Someway to look at what our options really are – this is my initial attempt to do it. It isolates some variable we need to assemble.
Quipp – difficult to process right here right now, and the public can’t all see this… so let’s not dive into this right now. I’m tired. It is late. Any more on the feedback from the public?
Tom – I skimmed the background material – is PAYT still applied to bin size and how often they are picked up? It correlated to how much I throw away.
Moreland – yes – depends on the contract. There is a standard contract where the Town pays directly. Small carts, less frequently picked up. There is another way – a franchise – that splits cost – Town pays for recycle and compost, but you contract with Casella directly for whatever you want, small or large.
Tom – so if the house gets a small bin and I have a small bin, but I put mine out once a month, do we pay the same?
Potter – that may be difficult to arrange. They want to have set schedules.
Tom – another thing – how much control we have over what WSWMD accepts for compost?
Moreland – two parties have control. If you haul yourself, you follow their rules. They track how hot the piles get, and follow certain rules. Curbside, there would be other considerations added by the hauler – weight, perhaps.
Tom – I ask because we already accept dog and cat feces, maybe compostable diapers could be an outlet.
Moreland – district is not interested in competing human waste at this time.
Frick – I love your suggestion. Why can’t we do a combo of bins and bags. I don’t understand how billing will work with bins. If we still use bags, then it could be simple for some to reduce their output and cost as well, if not, how do bin billings work?
Moreland – what do you mean?
Frick – bins as alternatives to bags. some periodic fees? or pay for the bin once?
Moreland – they last a long time. Won’t be replaced frequently.
Frick – how does that translate into a tipping fee. Bags are obvious – bag = cost.
Potter – the bins will be like a reusable bag and you’d get billed monthly. The standard model would pay through property taxes.
Frick – how about the Town owns the truck and does it themselves… don’t seer that here.
Pierre – I might be overcomplicating. What I’ve learned – other towns are dropping Casella – too expensive. The franchise and standard? Each household pays monthly and no town taxes for it? (yes) And
Potter – bins would be purchased, then there would be a fee to collect from them.
Pierre – I have a hard time Casella will option different size bins. I think it will come down to costs. Casella will dictate how the program will run. What would I like to see? I’d like an option to opt out if it is town taxes – we could do it ourselves for our little neighborhood.
Quipp – this work is ongoing so,
Potter – at July 23rd we hope to have pricing.
Quipp – hopefully we can get some good options.
Liz – thanks to Christine for participating.
Quipp – we are so far behind schedule…
Oscar – I could find it in the materials – when is the contract end date?
Potter – currently on a month to month basis that could continue until a contract is done.
Preliminary 2025 Legislative Agenda Priorities
Quipp – I’d like to table this to the next meeting.
so moved.
Quipp – We have a lot to appoint.
(Committee Appointments wrap things up…..)
Don't Pay for Parking
Just don’t. This was a textbook sew-up. The options presented were carefully chosen to shift the conversation to which particular large fee increase would be enacted, and to prevent any discussion of if we should have any fee increase at all.
Some takeaways for readers: the number of meter maids is small and they’ll be stretched even thinner by patrolling on Sundays. You’re already unlikely to get a ticket unless you park all day; these changes will make getting one even less likely. Just don’t pay.
Should get easier, too
Staff said they wouldn’t need to walk round as much with the kiosks. It was implied they’d sit around more and look at the app telling them where to go to find a violator, then go to where the app tells them.
Amazing that they want to charge all the Centre Church folks for Sunday parking. And no one spoke up about it.
Hmmm, downtown – a bunch of closed stores, and extra 1% fee for any purchases, and 44% rise in parking fees plus no free days. Add in the terrible condition of roads, surveillance cameras, reports of crack use in the parks, and pretty good online delivery options means you have a wonderful tourist destination. : )
Downtown business should thrive with conditions like that. Ha!
I agree town staff has mastered the art of forcing a decision by padding with “options” that aren’t really serious. And selectboard members rarely stand up and push back. Franz tried last night but was shot down multiple times.
“Just approve the budget number and we’ll work out the details later” was clever… lock ’em in and let them choose within limits. You can have anything to drink as long as it is coke or pepsi.