Dear ibratt readers, here’s something fun to get into – an opportunity to ask a question to Congressman David Jolly (R-FL) and Congressman Alan Grayson (D-FL) about the issues that are most important to you. You can watch the Florida Open Debate for U.S. Senate on Monday, April 25, at 7:00 pm EDT. All questions will be chosen from among those that receive the most votes online.
Send in your question about chemtrails! (They are patently not contrails – contrails do not last in the sky for hours)
Or vote for my question on chemtrails and let’s get this into the public arena so we can know what the heck these artificial clouds are about:
https://floridaopendebate.com/questions/17937/vote/
Here’s the site that tells you a little about the open debate question opportunity.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wORXzoB9TvQ
And here’s a talk by a panel of pilots, officials, agency scientists and other experts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daGuPLXVunQ
A chance to lie to rest the issue was not to be
In this geo-engineering video link you provided (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daGuPLXVunQ) a member of the audience had discussed chemtrails with a geo-engineer in England, who told him,
“I’m a scientists, that’s bunk. The only way you’re going to show that to me is one of two ways. Your either going to capture the cloud and break it down into its elements, or you can use spectrum analysis where you can see what the elements are (of the chemtrails).”
The audience member then asked a panel member who was a “former Defense Industry employee” if it was true what the English scientist had said. The panelist agreed that “it’s possible to do (with a land-based unit) a spectrum analysis of the particles in the air; also there are aircraft that can fly through those clouds to make a collection of samples, which can then be analyzed in a mass-spectrometer to identify all the unique elements in the trail.”
I thought great! Now we’re getting somewhere. But it was not to be. There was no follow up, no mentions that these “chemtrails” were, in fact, analyzed and identified by anyone, anywhere!
After all these years of claims about chemtrails you would have thought an analysis would have been done a long time ago.
Here was a chance to lie to rest the issue of what these “chemtrails” were actually composed and this panel just glossed over it like nothing.
You can imagine how disappointed I was.
I believe he said the spectrum analysis
was very expensive to carry out. However, it’s up to everyone to do further research. Do you really believe these clouds are “normal contrails”? Don’t you owe it to yourself to look into it further? Don’t take my word for it. What if I am right? If I’m wrong, well no harm done. Do you really think your government would not do this to you? That is the fallacy that enables your demise. Unlabeled food containing GMO’s, a rotten sickness care system, fluoridated water, mandated vaccinations, the list goes on. Why do you suppose government prohibits a plant that can cure many diseases with no side effects (cannabis) and lists it as a Schedule 1 drug alongside heroine and cocaine? Why are schoolchildren and even college students, not taught about Nikola Tesla? Not even MIT physics students (I asked one and he didn’t know who I was talking about) Do you not mind being treated like an unwitting bug by your government? It is hard to believe that anyone could be so evil, but it was hard to believe they went into Iraq after 9/11 claiming Saddam Hussein had something to do with the attacks. Is it ignorant to ask why the skies are being choked with streaky clouds? I know this did not happen in earlier times. Is it smarter to sit and wait for someone to drop the information on your lap while passively saying, “prove it to me”? Do you really think the government hasn’t got themselves covered with their myriad alphabet agencies like the CIA, FBI, NSA, and others that work in the dark and deny the public pertinent information? Have you read Agenda 21 (written in the mid 1990’s by the UN)? The information is not going to be easy to prove because half the fun must be doing it in plain site and having us not believe our own eyes. Even tanking the economy and not bringing anyone to account while the people suffer speaks volumes about what the government thinks of you. But of course they are other subjects. Is it wrong to extrapolate? Would you keep giving a pass to a friend if they abused you thusly?
People who know me would not ask me
Whether or not spectrum analysis is very expensive to do was not my concern. My question was why spectrum analysis hasn’t been done after two decades of “chemtrails” claims.
You then state that “However, it’s up to everyone to do further research.” Actually, no, it’s not up to everyone. There’s no way to know how many people believe chemtrails exist. My google search just now showed about 5.4 million results. But it took 20 years for the results to get that high. There is no way of telling what those results mean in terms of believability or acceptability, except that chemtrails is a popularized expression. I have consistently read over the years, however, that most scientists speak of aircraft vapors as contrails.
In your reply to me, the number of questions you ask make it difficult to focus on a few, even one answer.
But taken as a whole I can see you think the trends you enumerate here are all applicable to (American) government agencies working against the best interests of Americans. Since there are currently 2.8 million federal employees it stands to reason that all of them can’t have it in for their fellow Americans. So it makes answering this question “Do you really think your government would not do this to you?” very difficult, if not impossible to answer.
To ask my own question, however, Can the American government, or any government for that matter, engage federal employees and other agencies to destroy its own people?
My answer: I was 19 years old when I first learned of the allegations that FDR had advance knowledge of the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Therefore, as a longtime activist myself, people who know me would not ask me that question or your later question, “Do you not mind being treated like an unwitting bug by your government?”
Perhaps your questions here are rhetorical and not intended for me to answer?
So, as far as the spectral
So, as far as the spectral analysis being expensive, that means that ALL of the people who think chemtrails are a thing, despite the fact that they claim to be trying as hard as they can to draw attention to this issue, despite their belief and claims that we are being literally poisoned and our environment damaged, have not been able to collectively raise an amount of money equivalent to buying a decent house in order to commission a scientific study that would (in their minds) decisively prove their case?
Uh huh. I’d call that suspicious.
As for the rest, thats a big block of crazy.
Lets pick one other thing, as it may reveal some context as to how you got to where you are today.
What diseases does cannabis cure with no side effects? (Yes, readers, she just claimed cannabis has no side effects…)
Real Florida questions
The main questions for Florida, as someone who lived there, are:
– will the giant pythons eat me or my family if I visit?
– why does everything close at 6 pm?
– will I be shot by a fearful person?
– how late does DisneyWorld stay open tonight and are there fireworks?
– will the alligators eat me or my family if I visit?
– should we swim in the Gulf when the water temperature is only in the upper 70’s, or wait until it reaches the mid 80’s?
– what hasn’t the movie changed at the theater for 18 weeks?
– is that another drive-through liquor store?
– how do I get love bugs off my grille?
– will the mosquitos eat me or my family if I visit.
I'll add
– is there a grocery store where people don’t move as slow as sloths?
– what bug repellant works for both cone-nosed assassins and red ants?
– why are the termites indestructible down here?
– how many thrift stores does one town need?
– is the tiki bar still open?
Wrong
You are still factually incorrect that contrails can not last for hours.
This has been pointed out to you several times, at this point its obvious you are not just ignorant, but willfully ignorant.
It was you who didn’t realize temperatures were below freezing at 30,000 feet, right?
I’m glad to see so few votes for your crazy question, time should not be wasted on such garbage.
Well don't waste your time then.
You’re going to end up with so much egg on your face.
You really don't realize you
You really don’t realize you are a crackpot loon, do you?
So no, I’m pretty sure knowledgeable, educated and even just plain reasonable people will continue to brush off and roll their eyes at the likes of you.
You didn’t research any of the info I guided you towards, did you? You still don’t understand how to construct an argument with evidence or how to properly evaluate claims made by others.
Learn some science and epistemology. They’ll help inoculate you against buying into nonsense conspiracy theories like chemtrails.
And I don't consider ad hominen
to be an argument. Who are you anyway?
An ad hominum attack would
An ad hominum attack would only be a fallacy (and thus an invalid argument) if I was saying you were wrong BECAUSE you were a crazy crackpot.
Instead I’ve demonstrated why you are wrong with sound, valid arguments, counter-arguments and evidence. I also stated that you are a crackpot, however my arguments were not based on that premise. Therefore, it is incorrect to refer to this as an ad hominum argument.
Calling you a crackpot is merely an insulting (and in my opinion, appropriate) descriptor.
So, looks like you are wrong again.
As for who I am. I am me. Perhaps you should ask a more specific question?
What about Vidda's question
What about Vidda’s question about the obvious lack of the spectrum analysis?
I wouldn't hold my breath
I wouldn’t hold my breath expecting these nutcases to have a shred of actual evidence for what they claim.
Its much easier to just make stuff up as they go along.
The fact that they are so unphased and uninterested in pursuing an *actual* method of proving or disproving their claims should tell us that they don’t actually care about evidence. While some clearly are deceivers rather than deceived, my guess is that in most cases its not malice or dishonesty that is to blame.
In order to be gullible enough to believe in such nonsense their ability to understand, evaluate and interpret evidence is fundamentally broken.
Recall in an earlier thread Denise Ward here didn’t understand what the “burden of proof” meant.
Its like asking a pathological liar to be honest. Dward here, and I’m guessing most people on that panel and in the audience of that video, simply lack the cognitive faculties to apply epistemology and critical reasoning.
So to rational people with fully functioning minds, an analysis of the composition of these “chemtrails” would seem to be priority #1 and a critical fact. To these people, its simply not. Its like when Donald Trump gets caught lying or making shit up. You can point it out to him, and he just plain doesn’t give a shit. It really just doesn’t matter.
Ask yourself if an analysis of the composition of these contrails/chemtrails were done and showed it to be nothing more than the simple contrail we know it to be, would a significant number of these crackpots actually go “Oh, I was wrong” and change their mind? I doubt it.
So, since folks like Denise Ward are likely too far gone to do anything useful with, the best policy is to point at the crazy person and hope to discourage anyone from taking them seriously and to use them as an example of exactly what NOT to be when you grow up…
I know you chemtrail
I know you chemtrail crackpots aren’t really into the whole “actual data” thing, but heres a toy for you to play with:
http://www.flightradar24.com
This shows real-time to slightly delayed flight data for *most* commercial flights, particularly those equipped with ADS-B transponders assuming theres a ground station equipped with the appropriate gear within range (not sure how well southern VT is covered by said gear)
So next time you see a contrail and have deluded yourself into thinking that the plane its coming from is flying too low for it to be a contrail, or that its a sekrit gubmint flight…. hop onto this website and you can see its altitude as well as its flight information (what kind of plane, operated by who, going where… etc…)
Chemtrails are sprayed at night too
and whether day or night they cover the sky with a misty blanket. I can’t recall planes doing this even in as far back as the 70’s. You’re constantly saying I’m a crackpot but do you really believe that with modern technology, planes would release more “contrails” than they did decades ago? Plus, what effect do you suppose this is having on the world you inhabit? Whether contrail or chemtrail, these clouds last for hours and not only do they stop the sun in the day, they are sprayed late in the day and therefore prevent the earth from cooling too.
You have not demonstrated,
You have not demonstrated, nor do I accept that planes “release more contrails” today than they did decades ago.
I’m also not particularly obliged to trust the memory of someone who spends a great deal of time talking about how awesome cannabis is.
Even if you have not thoroughly baked your brain with drugs, your personal testimony regarding your recollections of the difference in the average number of contrails in the sky over a time period spanning decades would not be at all reliable.
I would not rely on such testimony from memory of even the most credible, balanced, unbaked, and trustworthy individual or group of individuals, let alone someone who has demonstrated a tendency towards confirmation bias.
Now if you want to talk about how *contrails* are essentially artificial clouds that do have a non-zero effect due to their interactions with sunlight, etc. etc. Then you are finally starting to re-join reality and have finally found a topic far more worthy of discussion than any of the conspiracy theorist lunacy you’ve spewed so far.
The current consensus appears to be that the negative effects of such artificial clouds are so minimal that it is not worth the cost and/or disruption to mitigate them. If you disagree with that conclusion, then you can state your case and make arguments based data and evidence. There should be a fair bit of math involved, just FYI. *That* is a discussion I would be curious to see threshed out. Though I doubt it will happen here, I would certainly be happy to be surprised.
However, a detrimental side effect of all the paranoid nonsense you spew is that your credibility is pretty much utterly destroyed and thus you have severely hampered your ability to be taken seriously in any such conversation.
So if you want to contribute meaningfully, abandon the nonsense and discuss the stuff that actually exists.
Well you probably have no sense
of reality that comes from your own eyes. You probably don’t notice things around you. I can imagine you are very cut off from your environment and rely heavily on the new dogma (science) to give you your information and allow you to think the way they decide.
So no spectral analysis for
So no spectral analysis for us huh?
The conspiracy theorist is claiming that science is a dogma, now thats funny. You don’t function very well outside the bubble of other batshit crazy people, do you?
So tell me, what do your eyes tell you about lets say, germ theory, or quantum physics? Or do you think those aren’t real and only exist in the scientific “dogma”?
No because who
is going to do such tests? Firstly they are extremely expensive to do and secondly, as if we’re going to be privy to the results. Much like the fossil fuel companies knew that fossil fuels cause the greenhouse effect decades ago and hid the information, and Tesla was never mentioned in schools or colleges. Nonetheless, we’re being poisoned by fluoride in the water, there is ample proof of that. Do you really think the government cares about you so much that they wouldn’t poison you from the skies?
So you mean that a group who
So you mean that a group who makes extraordinary claims that contrails are actually the result of a chemical being deliberately sprayed and who even go so far as to make assertions about it containing aluminum or X Y or Z, does not contain a single person with the relevent scientific expertise to conduct a scientific experiment/test that would provide verifiable evidence of your claims.
So what you are acknowledging is that not one of you who buys into this nonsense actually has the slightest bit of expertise or scientific literacy to actually provide any evidence for your claims. Your entire community of crackpots can’t produce a single person who could conduct a proper, verifiable study, despite all of the extraordinary claims being made.
Well, ok. I think we are done here.
(Also, if you look into what the authors, bloggers, etc. and crackpot honchos rake in in terms of income for selling this nonsense to the ignorant and the deluded, they could afford to fund this study quite a few times over. Interesting that they don’t, despite claims that we are all being poisoned, seems to me if we were actually in danger it wouldn’t be hard to rally folks to pony up a mere 250k).
And now we can add fluoride to the list. Aside from diminishing your purity of essence, any particular nonsense you’d like to spew there so I can debunk it as well?
...that they wouldn't poison you from the skies
“Do you really think the government cares about you so much that they wouldn’t poison you from the skies?”
Poison who? Indiscriminate poisoning? Targeted poisoning? I would still like to see this demonstrated. Why is this for so long just an assertion and only a talking point for chemtrails, but not ably substantiated?
Forget the not ably substantiated thing
I’d be satisfied with some good old healthy speculation. To make the stated question: “Do you really think the government cares about you so much that they wouldn’t poison you from the skies?”…calls for some fine-tuning.
There are just too many people under the skies to throw out a generalization of just who the government would poison.
Hence, the question: Poison who?
Too many questions go unanswered
Too many questions go unanswered about the alleged nefariousness behind chemtrails. One as stated above more than once – the lack of spectral (spectrum) analysis. Since science generally does not cotton to the notion of chemtrails, they have no reason to test assertions they do not make. The word chemtrails was coined
Another question is, if there is a cadre of power elite who is releasing into our atmosphere chemical or biological agents in a covert operation through specially designed exhaust methods to poison the populace, what protective gear do they use to prevent from being poisoned themselves?
After all, once released into the atmosphere, these poisoned “chemicals” would not know the difference between the power elite and the little people they want to poison. Do the power elite and their families wear special protective clothing, face masks and oxygen tanks to keep from poisoning themselves?
It isn’t that NASA, the military or corporate and private interests are above manipulation, what is called geoengineering. This anthropomorphic species would manipulate its own mother if it served their purpose. But the notion of uncontrolled mass chemical poisoning of our atmosphere is counterintuitive to commonsense.
Chem/con trails
This is a worthy topic. Our discussing it is long over due. What I have noticed is that on some blue sky sunny days the white lines appear and then can become like a blanket. I have looked at the weather report and it will say sunny but once the crisscrossed lines are done it’s no longer a sunny day. I also noticed that a few of my friends are depressed during the blanketing time. I am not asserting any scientific facts only my observations. Thank you to the people who took this topic seriously.
Counterintuitive to commonsense
If it’s true that “long-lasting trails left in the sky by high-flying aircraft are chemical or biological agents deliberately sprayed for sinister purposes undisclosed to the general public” and that, “In 1996, a chemtrail conspiracy theory began to circulate when the United States Air Force (USAF) was accused of “spraying the U.S. population with mysterious substances” from aircraft “generating unusual contrail patterns.” then —
Houston, we have a problem.
After twenty years of this spraying of the US population with mysterious substances, the bubble should have popped by now.
Exactly how does one spray:
–the US population without spraying other countries, Canada or Mexico, as examples.
–only the poor people, but not the rich people.
–chemicals to exactly target certain people, but not others.
In these past twenty years I have never seen contrails totally blocking the sunlight or the sky, therefore, there is no such thing as a “blanketing time,” nor is it likely that these contrails (by any other name) are causing anecdotal “depression” except in the minds of people who are already prone to depression.
It is not a worthy topic, it
It is not a worthy topic, it is utter delusional nonsense. There is absolutely no such thing as chemtrails, they exist only in the minds of ignorant conspiracy theorists.
Educate yourself:
http://contrailscience.com/
clouds
https://www.ibrattleboro.com/sections/nature/weird-clouds-sky-today
please look at my post from a few years ago. you will see that I took photos of the clouds when they formed into a blanket and that configuration stayed in place for quite some time.
the depression: well that’s the funny thing, the people that say they are depressed (their energy really minimal) are not the usual people who have that problem. So it’s a standout kind of experience for them.
It’s all a big puzzle that I hope will become solved.
ps ( if you haven’t got convincing facts to contribute to this post, it appears some of you go on the attack in a personal fashion.) just saying…..
And so on what basis did you
And so on what basis did you decide that this was not a natural occurrence and that this was the result of chemicals being sprayed from aircraft?
As for your depression nonsense, confirmation bias is the most likely culprit.
I did provide a link full of actual data and facts, which is why you should use it to educate yourself.
Chemtrails are not a thing, its an absurd self-contradictory conspiracy theory that I’ve thoroughly torn apart on this thread and others, do your homework.
What Are Mammatus Clouds?
Robyn, if you want people to contribute “convincing facts” to this post, but you state that you yourself are “not asserting any scientific facts only my observations” just two days ago…no leg to stand on there…
Then you jump to “you go on the attack in a personal fashion…” What personal attack??
Your depression observation above is…what exactly are you saying, anyway? (Never mind, you don’t have to answer that.)
You direct us to your post from 2013, where again, there are no facts. But back then, when Rolf posts these two science related links (Submitted by Rolf on April 22, 2014 – 8:38am) there’s no indication you followed up on them.
http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-glossary/what-are-mammatus-clouds/5506130
http://www.crh.noaa.gov/lmk/?n=cloud_classification
Last, but not least, when Eschmitt posts factual links (Submitted by eschmitt on July 1, 2016 – 6:31pm), again, no follow up by you. In fact, every time Eschmitt posts clear, cogent, refutations of chemtrails, they are never even addressed.
What exactly were you just saying….. ?