It is the second Selectboard meeting of October, and more potential tax increases were considered. The cost of trash, recycling and compost will be going up substantially to cover the costs of the new automated robot arm collection system. The Town says it isn’t that the new system is expensive, it is that the old system was way too cheap. Hints that the costs will skyrocket more after signing on were given.
The board discussed a million dollar plus plan to put a police substation, four public bathrooms, a community room, and new parking system offices at the Transportation Center. They also heard from members of the public saying these costs were too much.
The board’s “Review of Debt Management Guidelines” was postponed to another meeting.
Preliminaries
Knock knock. Who’s there on time? Not the Selectboard… (they start late again).
6:20
Chair Daniel Quipp – and then we’ll get started. Where is my… okay, zoom screen ready? I can see that it isn’t. BCTV will be with you in a minute. Nice. Alright.
Quipp – reminder about rules with this meeting. Raise your hand to be recognized, state your name and where you are from, you can have up to 3 minutes. I would urge civility, and that means listening to one another. That goes for all of us. That’s about it. I saw downtown. There was an impromptu brass band and people handing out clothing and other basic needs. It was a nice positive environment that felt very Brattleboro.
Town Manager John Potter – there will be a DPW Open House on Oct 19. Tomorrow on Wednesday there is a syringe cleanup day at 29 Flat Street at noon to 2 pm. Learn how and do some clean-up. Human Services Review applications due next Wed by 5pm. Gibson Aiken will be open for afterschool and evening events soon. The skating rink opens Oct 26th. If you haven’t received a ballot contact the Town Clerk. Vote, then return your ballot before 7pm on Nov 5th. …vote American Legion from 7am to 7 pm on Election day.
Peter Case – we lost Annie Richards – a delightful person. No one championed the community more than she.
Franz Reichsman – I’m leaving town – so no office hours this week. Back next week.
Public –
Dick Degray – I’d ask you to consider moving the Nov 5th meeting since it is a big election day and you have a big first showing of the budget. Maybe move it to Wednesday or Monday?
Daniel – we’ve been considering it, but not planning it.
Starr LaTronica – I want to remind everyone that it is the Brattleboro Literary Festival this weekend – over 40 authors and it is all free. I hope everyone turns out. Also, a day of action, to oppose book bans. Take you picture with a favorite banned book.
Liz McCloughlin – I went to the Lit Fest schedule and picked out lots of things to do.
Consent Agenda
A. Use of Global Warming Solutions Fund for Chevrolet EV Purchase
B. Houle’s Wine LLC First and Second Class Liquor License – Approve
C. Heart Rose Club First and Third Class Liquor License and Outside Consumption Renewal – Approve
D. Center for Technical and Civic Life Grant – Ratify Acceptance of $10,000 Grant
E. Blue Cross Blue Shield CY25 Medical Plan Renewal – Approve
F. Capital Project Grant Funding for Public Libraries – Ratify Town Manager’s Acceptance of $1,650,073.50 Grant
G. FY25 Fuel Oil – Ratify $2.6275/Gallon Bid
H. Vermont Association for the Blind and Visually Impaired Parade Permit – Ratify
I. VBike Gallery Walk Parade Permit – Ratify
Consent is decreed throughout the land!
Human Services Review Committee
Quipp – the Human Services update. David, come to the table…
David Miner, the Chair of the Human Services Review Committee (plus other members of the committee – ?, Tara O., Sara T.) come up.
Quipp this is a committee of RTM and have been invited to talk about their process.
David Miner – we wanted to give some background about what we’ve done over the years and how we’ve gotten here today. Our application guidance and instructions and process and procedures is given to applicants. The grant locations are a longstanding tradition – food and finial security, homes, substance abuse, harm reduction, child, LGBTQ, immigrant support and safety. The objective was to allow a committee to review applications and recommend to RTM suggestions at RTM. Last year we had 900 pages to read and discussed over 30 hours. RTM usually accepts the recommendations without debate. Happy to invite anyone to join who is interested. Happy to have you on board. Applications are due next week then we’ll hit the ground running. It is an open committee. If you are interested, voice your interest. Our funding history – 10 years ago we allocated $120k to 21 organization. 5 Years ago 190k to 26 orgs. For 2022, RTM implemented a 1.4% grant limit – a welcome change. That first year we provided 33 grants to $260k+. Two years later we granted 36 grants $280k. This year we have a 2% allocation. WE did grant 38 applications for $367k. We can use up to the 2%. We rely on the applications and provide grants based on the requests. Each application is reviewed. Last year allocation – with 53% went to drugs, mental health and housing … children… 9% food,… applicants cover each of those areas. A non profit with or without official status that supplies human services to the town can apply. May ask for general operating expenses or a project. Will be given out in one lump sum. WE focus on the services are provided to Brattleboro residents. Committee can deny any application that doesn’t meet criteria. They get read and scored based on string fiscal management, impacting the population, monitoring needs, to what degree is this for Brattleboro. We are responsible to the voters of Brattleboro. WE have 8 people on the committee this year. We’ll begin to review applications a week after the deadline. You must meet the deadline. Wed Oct 23 at 5 pm. Applicants can request to meet with the committee.
Quipp – thanks. No motion – just information. Questions?
Liz – thanks for your work. It is a benefit to the town as a whole. Have to be in RTM to be on the committee?
David – no – but from Brattleboro.
Franz – I don’t understand the limits of the questioning.
Quipp – I attended the first meeting and you were already putting thoughtful work into the process . It is a lot of work, and you have nearly half a million dollars to work with. Some things I’m curious about – what’s your goal? Thought on how to make the most impact with the money ?
David – we outlined our goals – we rely on the organizations that apply to identify the populations and the need. The food banks – some will focus on total population, and some focus on different population groups in the community. We are looking for groups that have identified a need and how they provide that service. It is somewhat reactionary, but I think that the needs of the tow are being served and served by a number of different organizations. It’s overall … we ave 8 members and the members of the committee all have different interests and focus, so as we review the applications, we get not one the opinions and focus of the applicant but also the committee. We make decisions together.
Quipp – how to be most impactful?
David – to identify need. The organizations are identifying the need. We are hitting a cross section of the community and I think it is important we don’t simply define as a committee the one area we think we need to serve. That’s operating with blinders on. WE need to have an open mind to what we are seeing and what is proposed.
Richard Davis – I appreciate the level of accountablity of the applicants – it is a great model of how to use taxpayer’s money.
Franz – by having so many recipients is the effect diluted? Have you had discussion on this? Fewer larger grants?
David – if you look at who is applying, they are making impacts through different sectors. If we focus on something, you are getting us to make a decision about the needs of the community. I probably couldn’t guess. That’s the value of what we do. If you look at the $120k we gave years ago, it was a pittance. Now, we can make meaningful contributions to a number of organizations. WE don’t supply 100% of the budget to any organization. We ask what other funding sources they have. It is interesting to see what they have found. Not all going down the same rabbit hole.
Sara – the ask about the degree to which organizations collaborate with one another. That’s something we consider. And is the committee chose what to focus on, that would be setting policy. That’s your job, or RTM. Some organizations deal with the big issues in town – $400k on one or two organizations would leave a lot of others out in the cold. This is the bare minimum to be giving to these organizations. If that’s a concern, then that is a question for budgeting season.
Quipp – we’ll write the warning for RTM and we can put a question on it about what is the appropriate level of funding. Are there other questions that should be asked?
David – we’ll have a better sense of what our needs are after we see applications.
Quipp – if you have a question for RTM we can put it on the warning for you.
Degray – thanks. I remember when this fell under the purview of the selectboard. Joerg Mayer did some research and found it didn’t belong with the selectboard and needed to be a committee. The tax impact, as more money is given by RTM impacts taxes, and that’s a concern to me. Some people receiving money are paying taxes, so I’m hopeful that RTM is considerate of that. AS the number exponentially grows, I hope everyone is concordat of it. I think you are doing an excellent job. There isn’t a duplication of services, and you hold back if you don’ need to spend it all every year. Be mindful of the larger number.
Sara – I appreciate that and we are thoughtful of money we don’t need to spend. The organization contribute to the well being of the community so some dividends are paid back. A little push and pull, I’d say.
Marigold First and Third Class Liquor License, Outside Consumption Permit, and Annual Entertainment License
Quipp – Marigold in former River Garden. Recommendation is to approve! Glenn Alper is the applicant .
Glenn Alper – my intention is to have a bit of a community for people who come – local artists, performers, a cafe, beer garden, live music during day and evenings.
No one makes a motion.
Liz – thanks for offering to open a business sin town. MY concern is the 1 am ending time. Quite different from other bars and restaurants downtown and several neighbors are concerned. Residences. How have you considered that, and have you thought of an earlier end time.
Glenn – people linger, the arts take a while to get out – a firm cut off time, not a time for events to go that late. I’m not planning on it being loud. Volume moderate and doors closed after a certain point. I know that in the past. I’m good communicating as concerns arise. less confrontational and more cooperative. I’m not seeing loud music in there, and know no one wants to hear loud music late at night.
Liz – early to have an earlier end time. If it were more consisnetant with th other bars and restaurants. many think they close too early, but this seems exaggeratedly late.
Glenn – I would like to encourage nightlife in Brattleboro. Not a late night club but a place for evening events. It doesn’t need to be 1 am, but night time events – if it starts at 8 or 9, things go to 11:30 or 12, then people have to get out of there. Don’t want to rush people out at the end of the night. A little wiggle room at the other end.
Liz – let’s hear from the public.
Richard – if we say 1 am, does he have to shut at 1 am or the music end at 1 am. I hear he doesn’t plan to have the music until 1. What does the license cover?
John Potter – the question there is about the time and I’m trying to find what you put down in here… the event would be covered for anywhere in that period. Couldn’t perform beyond 1 am.
Glenn – I don’t want people performing at 1am… just some wiggle room.
Quipp – the license says estimated time for alcohol, then outside consumption end time…. maybe we need to get the info from Hillary? The application says 11 to 1am.
Richard – close at 1?
Liz – 1am for the whole shebang.
Quipp – there are three things – two kinds of licenses.
Richard – why not say entertainment to 11am and the rest until 1am?
Potter – we should do research on this and come back.
Peter Case – how does this differ?
Quipp – I believe it differs in hours.
Liz – I am similarly rusty but it wasn’t 1 am…probably 10 or 11. It was contentious. There were differences for weeknights and weekends.
Potter – previous owners had til 11pm.
Quipp – I’m in favor of more activity downtown and more active spaces are great. You are willing to be flexible. Consideration of neighbors is appropriate. The public wishes to speak as well. Nothing here makes me I don’t want to approve this. I’d like to give this a chance and we take the license back or impose limitations. The previous operation – no complaints about noise. I’d hope this business can do that as well.
Liz – I would be supportive if it operated in the same congenial manner until 11pm.
Public
Asst Chief Evans – for historical noise enforcement, pre-COVID. We had several loud bars downtown. We focused on keeping doors shut and windows closed. Not long term problems.
Potter – all town departments reviewed this.
Degray – the outside consumption – a time for that? So a question would be what time for shutting the outside consumption… that back deck, which is in a neighborhood and that’s a huge concern. There was a spot in the Harmony lot and there were apartments above. That would be a concern. What would be a good time to shut that down.
Quipp – want to answer that? Time isn’t in the application.
Potter -f or the open hours.
Glenn – doors open have noise from the space. We could end outside consumption at 11. Doors will be closed more often that not because of the weather. I do want to be flexible. I want happy neighbors. I have a club in Easthampton. I tend to be more conservative. It’s not a huge space. If you can’t hear others talk it is too loud.
Mark Baxter – I’m in the Paramount building on the top floor in the back. A permit to operate until 1 am 7 days a week as it states is an incompatible space in the historic center of town. You have apartments abutting either side. paramount and HookerDunham for a horseshoe, and noises are amplified up and beyond in the rear. A dozen or more rentals, the Brooks House across the street. When the River garden first opened there was a controversy about noise… they agreed to stay open until 10 only 2 nights a week. This isn’t any casual restaurant or bar – it says it is an entertainment venue. He owns a similar bar in Mass. A newspaper said the bar was so loud the bartender can’t hear me, we have to shout to be heard, when the owner emerge we have to shout to converse. The permits filed here says music will be indoors. The back doors are propped ope routinely – people come in and out with applied music out the back of the property. I ask you to consider the abutters and deny the extended hours. Denny extended operating hours.
Bonnie – I don’t live near the venue but I went there a lot as the Whetstone – they had open mic that shut down at 9pm. It wasn’t the same level of volume. I’m not sure you’ve looked into the demographics of Brattleboro – we are old,. Won’t be staying up til 1am. You want to stick this in a community. Reconsider the timeframe of that application.
Becky D – I am familiar with the Whetstone and live down there. I’d like this approved with conditions – hours of the day and days of the week. 5 to 10 pm or 12 to 10 pm. Doors shut, limited hours, and two days a week closed.
Glenn – we should be careful not to project previous experiences onto this. If you compare this to Easthampton – I see this as a cafe – not a concert hall – a gathering place with a reason to come out. My concern is with hours. I don’t need to be open 7 days a week. I hear you say 10pm, but nightlife happens after 10pm. I could see it stopping at 11 during the week and 12 on weekends. I need enough hours to run the place and recoup.
Daniel – ready board?
Peter Case – (makes motion to approve). I don’t want to tell someone when to open and close. A business downtown is an asset. But people also live downtown. Being open 5 hours a day is a non-starter. But I do want to make consideration of what’s been said tonight.
Franz – I find myself somewhat confused about the limitations we approved. Do licenses specify different hours and days and purposes? It could get pretty complicated to be good enough for the business and neighbors. To just approve this with limitations of 11am to 1 am… it would be nice to have an actual discussion between interested parties. I’ve heard a little movement on both ends, but no full agreement. Are we going to try to tailor this to specific parameters? Days and hours? How far should we go.
Quipp – the license would approve 11-1 7 days a week.
Liz – I suggest closing liquor and entertainment at 11 on weeknights and Saturdays until midnight as Glenn said. Sundays it would close at 11.
Glenn – can we say Friday at 12, too?
Liz – I amend it to add Friday to midnight.
Daniel – vote on the amended motion after discussion.
Franz – would this apply to it closing at those hours, or just stop noisy entertainment.
Liz – I propose the hours of operation – liquor and entertainment.
Richard – we can always review the application based non what happens, and if there is a big demand for people who want to stay up later, we could go in that direction or the other direction.
Liz – let’s wait to se if that happens.
Richard – it cuts both ways.
Peter – at some point should we ask if that fits his business plan?
Glenn – my only confusion – can I have some time after to get people out the door?
Potter – if you are stopping everything and cleaning the space…
Liz – I would say if a place of business closes, it is closed, and people will leave, but we have to set a time for it to close.
Peter – if this works for him it works for me.
Glenn – I’d ask that if we stop alcohol or entertainment at those hours, I’d like a half hour buffer after to get people out the door.
Potter – you can adjust the motion.
Peter – I owned bars – if we had to close at 1 we’d start at 12:30…
Liz – Keep it simple – close at 11 on weeknights and Friday and Sat at 12. I’m sure he can figure out how to get people out.
Daniel – the amended motion vote – 4-1 (daniel no)
Daniel – vote on the amended motion – 4-1 (daniel no)
Thanks – you have your license.
Solid Waste Program Options – Discuss
Daniel – big news.
Potter – we’ve been working on this all year, reviewed it all and considered how to keep providing the services, asked the public and negotiated to Cassella. We have to reps from Cassella tonight. Before we hear from then, Patrick Moreland can give background.
Patrick Moreland – (mic is barely on…) Brattleboro had a cadillac system, unparalleled in the state. Three streams. No other program like this in the state. The people want it and want it to continue. (mic better) We went though a procurement process, got one respondent, and have a couple of options. One thing to make clear – we aren’t seeking a decision tonight, we are seeking feedback and want to hone in on services the board would like to see. There are a couple of questions, but they say we will present to options, which seems more attractive? So, with options available to us, it needs to be clear that any contract the town has in the future must have automated collection. Casella says so. It is for the safety of employees and to be competitive. We recognize that any transition must have automated collection. A vehicle would have an arm that picks up trash cans and dumps it. Any transition will require specialized carts – small medium and large. That’s what we’d use. The cost is about $55 per cart, delivered. Who should pay for these carts? Based on the info we have, automated collection and the PSYT bags don’t play together. WE are looking at different ways to not require the use of specialized bags. There are two options being proposed A and B… the difference is solely about what happens to trash. In both, A and B have the same organics and recycling. Option A we’d remove trash from the town’s contract with Casella. One subvarient would make use of an existing negotiate franchise fee. In A, Casella would get the franchise for Brattleboro, exclusively. A house would take that franchise price, or haul your own to the solid wast district. $26 a month – $320 a year. About the same as taking it to the solid waste district at one bag per week. Either option is $320 a year. The other option is no franchise and the free market – anyone could address the trash as they see fit. Anyone could contract with anyone. There are some challenges with either of the two models. The first one is um, under wither, if someone doesn’t pay their bill the service could be shut off. If the service is shut off, they have to pay Casella. There could be problem households that can’t keep current and garbage piles up. The other interesting thing about a franchise – the Town would have to enforce it. If Casella sees another trash hauler, the Town would have to correct it. In Option A, we need additional code enforcement – and another $70k for a code enforcement officer. In looking at costs between today and Option A, collection and disposal. Triple T blended some items. Casella is more itemized. You’ll see the net cost would be $967,491. If we got rid of the bag program, that’s a cost that houses no longer need to pay. It is also important to recognized that Option A franchise or free market – trash is paid by household. 4300 households x $320 – $1.375 million… a cost born by the households. If we went along with the free market system, the cost would be higher. If caseload has to work one on one, the price will go up. There is an economy of scale to do all houses at one time for this franchise price. That’s Option A.
Patrick – Then we have Option B – more standard. Similar to what we have today, al three waste streams. If we don’t have bags, how do we do PAYT? WE’ve heard concern about the size of the carts. WE’d like to focus on the small cart for trash and medium for recycling, but PAYT? The contract would provide every other week trash collection. The town would pay to pick it up. If that’s not enough, you could get more picked up on alternate weeks if you contract with Casella directly. That’s Option B. There is some ambiguity – all around trash. What we have recognized is that not everyone is thrilled with the trash program. Mostly those homes with diapers. Many of them have their own trash collection – they do recycling and compost, but not trash in PAYT bags. One thing a transition to automated collection will mean is higher volumes of trash. We run the risk of increasing the volume of trash collected. Because we pay on a per ton basis, there is some variability. We’ve negotiated an increase in the per ton fee. It’s good pricing. WE don’t know that we’d double the volume, but we was to show variability – if we provide carts, people will use them. Option B is more expensive. $1.3 million- $1.4 million. More expensive than what we’ve paid for in the past. Option B would be more expensive , but less expensive for the users of the system. While it would be more expensive in the general fund it would be less for the homes it serves. Finally – we point out some costs and make note that taxes would go up for each variation. One question, what’s the cost of the FY25, what’s the total cost of these things- it is an expensive program but delivers a lot of service to a lot of people. I’ll stop there.
David Allen – 28 years – John and Patrick have a grasp of what is going on… a really productive negotiation. For me, I want you to understand most is two things – we can’t do it the same way. My son, a firefighter, said that 20 years ago they stopped riding on the back of trucks, but you still do everyday. We aren’t going to do what there is a better way to do. We’ve eliminated all rear load containers. It is dangerous. Automated collection means the driver down’t have to get out of a truck. And new job applicants are getting older. Easier for more people to do the work. Second thing to understand is Brattleboro has a cadillac program throughout New England – collecting all three waste streams is progressive. Metrics can be misleading. We think less than half use the bag program. You see big drops in trash, but recycling doesn’t go up the same. It went somewhere. Some other town. It is effective but you can come to the wrong conclusion. You have a high recycling and compost participation, but low in trash. The big jump in cost is because we propose doing three times the work we do now. It was painful to get to this, but a great summary.
Daniel – questions… and comments?
Richard – we’ve heard this before. I’m so confused. so plan B – you didn’t speak of frequency.
Patrick – weekly organics and every other week for the rest. Organics would continue in same green thing…
David – still trying to crack that nut… we still will collect that manually until we figure out how to do that with mechanized equipment.
Franz – seems to me you do know this. A few questions – the extent to which volume increase is likely to happen? If the number doubles that’s a big increase. Option B low vs high – 1.3-1.4 million. $100k difference whether the volume increase. That accounts for a significant of the increased expense. But that shows that 1.3 million is the low volume. The expense is really coming somewhere else. Seems there are more costs but in elsewhere not related to trash increase.
Patrick – obviously they can speak to pricing, but there is an elephant in the room. The previous Triple T contract. The costs embedded in the contract I have no idea how they accepted it. there was a 1% cost increase each year. What seems more accurate is we didn’t realize how good we had it, and the previous owners were not investing for the future. I think they knew they were going to sell. How do we explain the previous cost.
Franz – I like that explanation, but it seems the increase is not due to trash, but to market forces.
Patrick -spot on – cost going up.
Liz – PAYT and these carts – how do they equate – we got along fine with a yellow bag. Even the small seems enormous.
Patrick – early on we reached out to ANR and inquired about acceptable parameters to do PAYT but do so differently. We can provide a base level of service. Service above it houses can pay for. If we provide a small can, but someone needs more, they could contract for the extra pickups or bigger/more carts. PAYT is concerned with associating the volume of trash with the price of trash.
Potter – how many bags fit in containers?
Dave – we did an experiment – we can’t have unlimited number of sizes. Because of the automated collection, it dumps over an 11 ft truck. We like a little extra room so trash doesn’t spill in the street. A 33 gallon bag will fit 2+ in the small container. Or 5-9 small bags. Depends on if you have a teenager in the house. The other reason… the smaller the cart – imagine you are the driver. The harder it it is to pick up and place back down upright.
Peter – what prevents electronics from going in those – the driver never gets out and looks?
David – it is a risk. Chances are slightly greater. There is technology that can identify things. Once it is in it is in. The driver concentrates on the road again. We don’t find that often. Where it is observed it is before it gets loaded into a larger truck. haven’t seen a great deal of it.
Quipp – this is the first time the public is hearing about this. The last contract was remarkably cheap. This new price is much more and people will have concerns. We want to continue to have compost picked up every week, recycling every other week, and trash every other week. This is a lot more money than we are used to paying. For my own experience, Option A would double my cost. We shouldn’t make people figure this out themselves. We owe it to people to provide a good level of service. I wish it was cheaper.
Liz – I agree with everything Daniel said.
Public
David L – I don’t fault staff but I emphasize the point that what we are looking at is a significant tax increase and there are other decisions you have and will be making. This isn;t the only shock to the system. I prefer Option A.
Bob O – I think I’m here. I appreciate the automated collection and the reason for it. Safety is the number one concern. I’ve experimented with self hauling – I pay about $120 a year, which is like Option B low. There are certain street that may not accommodate automated collection – streets with no sidewalks? I’d like to Opt in or Out.
Tom – I would also like to pay based off what I use. No and low trash users shouldn’t pay for others, even if it complies with the state, it diminishes the spirit. Option A is closer, but another way. I think electronics and other construction will make it into the waste stream. People will cut up furniture. The smallest container is grossly larger than what we need. Or pickup much less often.
Patrick – as dave pointed out, people could put unwelcome items in the trash cart. Something not included in the memo, we’ve discussed a system that will have a large item collection program… maybe quarterly or monthly. To get rid of couches and mattresses, etc.
iPhone – Caitlin – I once again – everything relates back to all of the services that people are struggling with – diaper pickup – will there be public options for homeless people can put diapers or other trash if they don’t have an address. Sanitation barriers are faced by members of the community. Will there be options for people living on the street?
Patrick – so, um, I’d say a couple of things. They mention sanitation for people living out of doors. That will be addressed later in the meeting. In terms of trash and recycling, we have public trash and recycling collected regularly. There has been some effort already.
Degray – the trash pickup in the town is 50% subsidized by commercial businesses. WE pay but don’t get the service. What if the costs were just on the users of the program. I’mgoing to be taxed for something I don’t use. Tell me about the compliance officer? How did we come up with having a marshal?
Patrick – we have limited code enforcement ability, and this would be a significant number of additional actions – it could take some time. The other component – if we get a call and the franchise is broken, we would need to get involved, so we’d additional code enforcement.
Daniel – want to see A and B next time?
(They don’t like A)
Franz – let’s find out how other communities handle this and they might say it is a nightmare. The convenience and participation in the Casella program… some other places do adopt things like plan A and I want to know how it goes.
Daniel – so most of us want to hear more about Option B. Thanks for your time and presentation. Quick break until 8:45.
Review of Debt Management Guidelines --- Police Substation Plan – Discuss
Daniel – in light of the time I’d like we table this to a future meeting…. okay, agreement. Next item is Police Substation Plan. I think Patrick will make another presentation.
Patrick – hoping AC Evans is nearby. For those in the audience, we have documents showing what is proposed. AC Evans will talk about using the space. But, the board discussed downtown safety – this is a concept for a ground floor police substation is Dotties and Experienced Goods old spaces. Police, community meeting space, and 24 hour a day restrooms facing outward. About 3,970 sq ft. We met with project managers and velours in the area that have knowledge of the Transportation Center – they looked at designs and thought about the building and they all said $275 a square foot for redevelopment. About $1.1 million. With additional furnishing we’d add $40k. As had been brought up already and at recent meetings, there are increased costs coming to the taxpayers of Brattleboro. Staff would be hesitant to recommend borrowing. While it is located in a Parking Fund asset, it is a General Fund expense (police). Don’t want to charge the general fund. The board could use the revolving loan fund. Some will say those dollars should be limited to affordable housing and economic development. Any time the town applies for funds for a CDBG grant, it is clear the fund can only be used in a certain way. When they get returned to us as loan funds, it becomes unrestricted loan revenue. Selectboard has some discretion This is a large project, it is a permissible use. The impact to the revolving loan fund would be to drop the balance from over $2 million down to $255k. It’s about where it has been for the last several years. You would end up with a similar RLF balance to previous years.
AC Evans – we spent a lot of time looking at designs and what spaces would be needed. Four BRAT team members would work there, plus community resource specialist, plus space for patrol officers and investigators as needed downtown. Social workers, too. A large complement of staff working there. The parking office would be adjusted, too. It is undersized. They’d get a better space and easier for the public, with a window on Flat Street. CJIS – certain areas need clearances before entry – to access computers or confidential information. We need restricted areas to do those things. I see this as a positive thing for that area of town. We all know it is a hotspot for criminal activity. Caused selectboard meetings to go long! It’s a perfect space. It will change the dynamic of the entire area.
Quipp – no decision tonight, just questions…
Richard – if this was done, the rest of the rentable space would be fixed up to generate some income?
Patrick – there is some work going on today to try to address some water leaks. We are hopeful it will be effective and we can have useable space. Remaining space would be for other used – leases, or for some other municipal use.
Richard – timeframe?
Patrick – great question – not a clear answer. We’ve been working feverishly to bring the plan forward. If you like this, we can take a look at when to get it done. Membrane work… we’ll get an answer
Liz – I’ve been advocating this plan for use. It solves a land use problem on Flat Street. I believe in Selectboard discretion and the use of the revolving loan fund for this purpose, but we should look at state and public grants. I wonder… I think it fits nicely with all the plans. I wonder . I don’t know. How will the restrooms be maintained?
Patrick – there will come times when they need to be taken out of service. We’ll have 4 so we can have options and keep one closed as need be and still keep other open. The ability to shut some offline as need be as staff are available for cleanup.
Liz – easy to clean materials? Long wearing?
Patrick – open and hose it down a drain is the plan.
Franz – lots of talk about a police substation there but this is the first visualized plan I’ve seen. This is not what I was expecting to see. There is a lot of this I like, but I though adequate room for a couple of people to do some work and interact. Public is asking for better access to police officers. WE have a mini police station here. It’s beyond the scope of what I was thinking about. Doesn’t mean I don’t like it. Cost is very high. I was think of a third of this price. I wasn’t thinking about a special communications room. We have expanded the police – where would the new staff be if we don’t do this? Is this because of expansion?
Evans – we don’t have space at the police station for all the staff. I wasn’t involved in building the current station, but it wasn’t built for expansion. No plans for expansion built in.
Franz – so to add 4 new staff, 3 new officers, a data analyst
Evans – and the 3 social workers…
Franz – so that’s part of the reason for this amount of space. Is there a smaller alternative to this? A more modest attempt for on duty office space?
Evans – Don’t have a good answer.
Patrick – you could shave off some square footage – the community meeting space could be eliminated – $450k carved out of cost.
Franz – do you have a document we could look at?
Patrick – it is just square footage x cost per square foot.
Peter – this address a lot of the conversations we’ve been having. Adds in public bathrooms. Like the environment where we’d put them. Curious about exploring state and federal grants – not opposed.
Daniel – It’s a pretty bold proposal and turns a moribund space – it has been empty for some time. Inactive space is bad for the community. Good use of space for police, liaisons, parking staff, public bathrooms (a massive deal!). I’d like to hear more about the community meeting space. They get a lot of use. I want more feedback about how it could be used. We should give people good spaces to work in. When people are happier they will do a better job. The use of the revolving loan fund… this is not a loan – the money gets spent and does;t come back, but I’m willing to suck it up. It has support in the community – for police and bathrooms. If a grant is available, great! I’d encourage us to move forward with this. We’ve already taken a number os steps, kind of controversial. People are thanking us. I want to give you the tools to do the job. I urge others to get on bard and make it a reality.
Liz – once again I agree with daniel – the money from the RLF has already been lent out.
Evans – we did a lot of work down there to decide on what space to use. A lot we didn’t sue, because we didn’t need it. We looked at what was necessary. I’ve been working here 30 years and lived her for a long time. I feel the tax concerns. I watch our budget.
Richard – it solves a lot of problems. One more thing, tough, there was some talk about public lockers. It is a solution to some street problems. Could we consider that in the plan?
Daniel – I love that.
Liz – I don’t. Social service agencies can provide them.
Daniel – the one that doesn’t need more. Now we have a design – we could be thinking about building some lockers or get some information about it and you can vote against it.
Liz – are there three head nods?
Franz – sure.
Daniel – that’s three. We’re dragging…
Tom – I have a comment/question – all of the white space that looks like rooms will be protected by a membrane and open up the spaces to be rented, so I’ve also heard the area has been absent of commercial uses. This will help revitalize the area. If we don’t take the other spaces and put them in the back, that activates and adds safety to that area, and opens up the from for 5 commercial spaces. They’d be more attractive to lease with the police substation there. And if they walked up and down the alley past the bathrooms to keep an eye on them.
Degray – I like Franz – I don’t support this plan. Deja Vu all over again. The bond was to redo the police station here and the fire stations and the voters passed it. The police moved out of town. Police said they didn’t need a substation downtown. A unutilized space? It’s because of what is going on down there. The BRAT team could clean up the space. The fire station community room isn’t used. We have spaces around town. Why spend another $450k for a space that might get sued sometime. If the board wants to support housing, the money could go back… you don’t need a community space down there. I think this is overkill. The board has overreacted… John didn’t know how many police -0 we have 22 police officers. WE haven’t even hit the quota, and you approved $800k for 3 additional officers. Now you approve 3 more. I’d hope someone would make a motion to reconsider. Do we need those officers right away.
Quipp – not germane – the substation.
Degray – not all these people will be in there at the same time. Remove the conference space. What is the municipality going to pay rent to the transportation fund? And what is the residual cost -a facility we need to maintain.
Caitlin – y’all are using a lot of language from the community safety review bard – I agree with Dick Degray – people have been asking for community space. Flat St is not a zombie apocalypse…people feel safe but you don’t feel safe there. If you’d hang out with neighbors you’d see it was found. Dotties was a place everyone could hang out. It could be public bathrooms. The selctboard for the last 5 meeting pushed though agendas the majority of town is not in favor if. You’ve taken no time for alternative responses. You’ve ignored town power and passion to ask you to take more time considering how you spend community safety budgets – just listening to businesspeople or the people in your town. Some people think more cops equal more safety. Current ration is fine. You are grasping for better policing – you will turn me off. You are choosing the wrong path, and turning our suggestions against us. Don’t do it.
Kate O’Connor – sometimes… a lot lately – I live in a town that is in a different financial situation than those on the board. The revolving loan fund – you have a trend to spend down money. You spent $300k out of the community safety fund for Transportation Center repairs, don’t know what is in the unassigned fund, and now the RLF. Is that a wise financial policy to spend down all the pts of money that are there for intended purposes. What do you do next year when there is no money. Think carefully. $450k on a community room is not a good use of money. Be really thoygtfuyl on what you are spending it on. There are long term consequences to decisions you make.
Lisa – Chair of Boys & Girls Club – we’ve asked for this for a long time. Whether it has a community room or not I’ll be happy with a police substation on Flat Street. Thanks for listening to our concerns .
Quipp – this will come back for a future decision. I’d like to move on.
……
I’m quitting now
Quarterly Fire Department Report
and
Quarterly Finance Report – FY25, Through Quarter 1 are up next. Enjoy!