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Feb 20, 2003 to Feb 6, 2013

Chemtrails - This Time A Lawsuit Pending

"This is truly an assault upon all life on earth."

"They're trying to obscure the severity of what's unfolding from the public as long as possible."

"What our government and other governments are doing and their agencies are doing are trying desperately to hide the magnitude of what's unfolding till the last possible moment, at which time total collapse ensues."

"There's a federal gag order on all national weather service and all NOAA employees…and we have environmental scientists being fired all over. Canada has let go of a huge number of their scientists, Australia has just fired 450 of their front line environmental scientists. Why?  Because they want to cover up what's happening in any way they can."

"We have government agencies set up to hide this fact from the population, to mask it. All the data is processed through central processing centers where basically fictitious numbers are put out."

"People better wake up to this fact because people who've been worried about their retirement accounts their future plans…but if we don't take care of this issue…. as a priority, we're not going to be realizing any of the plans that we've all laid out."

"If we don't take care of what is happening in our skies right now, nothing else is going to matter. All these financial plans that people have and all their future aspirations won't mean anything soon. That's how bad it is."

"The Great Barrier Reef, one of the Seven Great Wonders of the World - the largest living organism on the planet - we have about 20 days left…half of the Barrier Reef would die. "

"You really need to stand back and think about that, half of this organism that's countless millions of years old, will die in the blink of an eye.  We've lost half the Barrier Reef in the last three decades [because the oceans are warming]"

"We've had half the Barrier Reef dying in the last three decades and we'll have the other half dying in the next [20] days.  You can see the accelerating equation, it's absolutely as non-linear as it can be."

"It's not just the Barrier Reef, we have reefs dying around the globe."

"We have people asleep at the wheel, completely asleep at the wheel right now and we're trying desperately to wake them up so they can help us expose this issue while we still have something left to salvage."

~ Dane Wigington, Geoengineering Watch.org


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Laughed out of court and

Laughed out of court and dismissed in 3.... 2.... 1...

By the way, a bit of googling finds they only had enough money to pay the lawyers to file the suits, they don't have enough money to actually argue the case, let alone have even a shred of evidence. Can you say "frivolous"?

Maybe if the fellow sought mental health treatment so that he could hold a real job....


When courts rule that corporations are people

I'm afraid they've lost their cred with moi. But you don't have to believe anything. You don't seem to trust your own eyes and logic (why would contrails get worse over the years given improvements of technology?) etc. You don't mind what is being done to the planet and that is your prerogative.


If the courts have no

If the courts have no credibility with you, then why bother pointing out a lawsuit that will clearly be tossed out of court?

Secondly, I do trust my logic. You don't understand the laws of logic and you should probably do something about that.

If someone demonstrates that I am incorrect in my application of logic, then I will address that and likely change my conclusion. You have utterly failed to do that.

I don;t accept that contrails have gotten "worse" nor do I accept that there have been improvements in technology being employed that would reduce/eliminate them.

I pretty much reject every premise of your "argument" (A charitable term for such nonsense)

So, its not that I don't mind what is supposedly being done to the planet, its just that my brain is functioning and therefore I don't accept your unsupported nonsensical assertions that chemtrails even exist, let alone are something to be worried about.


I don't recognize the law but you do

so I was offering something from your own realm but you throw more excrement saying there is no evidence. There is ample evidence but what do you expect of a criminal syndicate - them to admit it outright? This has the effect of showing that you have no answers to the concerns many people have and what's worse you ask no questions of government. You swallow whatever they want to do to you and defend it to the end. You may not accept that contrails have gotten worse but where's your evidence? Seems you accept that without evidence so that shows your bias. Which is informative.

Anyway, I just wanted to post this film clip from news reports which talk about the effects of your supposed "contrails". Boy are you going to have egg on your face soon. Seems the people at iBratt have decided to censor discussion about chemtrails even though the subject has received hundreds of readers and comments and are now not allowing new posts on the matter. It's a dicky kind of video but I wish to show that it's more than a feeling...



Its the thread that just

Its the thread that just won't die...

You still don't understand what evidence is and you still don't understand that the burden of proof lies on the person making the positive claim.

If you are ever accused of a crime and stand trial I assume you will want the the charges to be held to *my* standard of evidence rather than whatever your standard is, exemplified in that pile of garbage video you just linked.

I'm also gonna go out on a limb that you'd prefer that cars, bridges and buildings be built based a far higher standard of evidence than you are presenting.

I note Wigington has been making these "Soon it will all come out!" statements and its amusing to see you parroting that. I doubt you loons have anything new to present and what has been presented thus far is junk, ignorance and delusion.

I do note they are now begging for fundraising to continue their lawsuit as a motion to dismiss has been filed and now they actually need to pony up and do some actual work and they apparently don't have the money to pay the lawyer (or this is just another fundraising scheme like the last time). So, the lawsuit referenced in the OP looks like its going to fail pretty hard, again.

Your "evidence" exists about as much as this supposed chemtrail "expert" that the other local crackpot was supposed to arrange to debate me.

The silence on that front is notably thunderous...

Here, try this:

The actual experts think its nonsense.


Its the thread that just won't die... lol !!

It is very odd how she revisits her article’s comments section that was published 4.5 months ago, with absolutely nothing new to add.

There must be a psychological term for DW’s condition, but if anyone belonged on the “couch” she surely does. (And, as I said, I know her otherwise to be a sweet, kind person.)

That link she provided was a jumbled mess of nonsense by the “Anonymous Patriot Production,” a suspect-sounding name if there ever was one.


Who is living in a bubble here

There is something inherently troubling about this enumeration of dire, doomsday claims. When you read these and others at face value, i.e., “assault upon all life on earth; at which time total collapse ensues; a federal gag order on all national weather service and all NOAA employees; mass firing of scientists, we have about 20 days left; while we still have something left to salvage,” etc., the hyperbole bounces off the walls.

Even the basic premise that one group of people are trying to destroy all the other people or all life forms makes no sense. Chemtrails is a good example of concern for our environment gone wrong.

The claims against the people and agencies being accused of poisoning us with chemtrails are vague and ill defined. Moreover, at no time does the accusers explain just how these vague people and agencies protect themselves from the very dispersal of chemtrails meant to destroy others.

In other words, these so-called destructive people would have to be suicidal themselves. Something just doesn’t add up.


I sort of see it as the

I sort of see it as the modern day techno age equivalent of the rumor mill of old. The sort that used to result in pogroms. Gotta plague, blame the Jews, gotta crop failure, blame the Armenians, gotta flood, blame the witches. Not much different in many ways, irrational fear of the unknown causing irrational behaviors. Hence the tin foil hats. Oh now I'm gonna catch it I bet. But don't you think it's just sort of human nature Vidda if you look through history, this is just today's version.


Vidda if you look through history, this is just today's version

Rosa, my thoughts exactly.

It pays to have a good sense history.


and it pleases me that we

and it pleases me that we might occasionally find common ground


I'm pretty glad myself Rosa

when common ground is found, not to diminish the view of another, as you know, but to place it in a context that helps to explain a more realistic view.


But what about the fact

that the incredulous often happens? By dismissing it, could it be that we are falling into a trap by those who have billions of dollars? We are monitored, everything we say and do, ostensibly because...terrorism. We are spending billions fighting terrorism, fighting drugs, yet these investments only seem to make things worse. Do you think that perhaps the billionaires may have too much time on their hands? Imagine if you had billions of dollars. Billions, that's a heck of a lot. A billion is hard to imagine but to give it context, a billion seconds ago would take us back to 1982. (and the Rothschilds are said to be worth trillions) think what you could do with all that! And without having to eek out a living like we plebs do, sure leaves a lot of time on your hands. And after a while the kicks need to get more and more adventuresome. We know so little about the psychopaths running the world, but they know everything about us. Everything. They monitor everything we say and do. They make laws that stop us from doing the most innocent things (like growing a plant for crying out loud) and they have colossal computers where all our data goes and are analyzed for what we do in any given situation (which they test constantly). They may not be able to determine what an individual can do, but they don't care about that. What they care about is what we ARE GOING TO DO in the aggregate. They like to predict our behavior because that is when you know you are really in control of people. And they can use all sorts of mind control methods which they have experimented on in labs undertaken years ago by imported Nazi's from WWII and which studies have been built upon as the technology has advanced.

I'm sure there are health measures that can be taken to remove the toxins out of our bodies. For example, taking diatomaceous earth, epson salts, chlorella, etc. But if you are unsuspecting of the problem, then you're going to be a victim. Because every single sentiment, no matter how minuscule, is being used against us.

My bias is that I have the underscoring belief that government is the last thing that we should trust, corporations the next. To think otherwise is folly indeed IMO. I am only trying to stop this atrocity from going on. Our awareness is what will stop anything because doing it under the radar of awareness, is how the psychopaths operate. Once we know, we foil their deranged little schemes.

Yet there seems little curiosity by the commenters here. Rather than question authority, question your peers seems to be the impulse. As if your peers are "out to get you"! Yes it makes for fascinating intellectual repartee however we're talking about lives and the ecology. And yet, no curiosity. Hmmm. Even the scientists don't want to talk about it. For fear of being called tin foil hat wearers. They are more concerned with ad hominen than truth. I tell you, this is most disturbing.

With all the controversy, it's strange that the candidates are not questioned or ever bring this up. Nor does the government feel obliged to add some reassurance into the fray. No statements are made. Just deafening silence. About a most troubling issue. They put rat poison into the water to (they say) help our teeth (though there isn't a shred of evidence it helps cavities) However, really - poison the people to save their teeth? This is all done right under our noses yet selectmen say nothing about it. They are too busy working out what color trash bags to enforce in the town. And remember - taxpayers are paying for all this so that puts the cherry on the cake for them. It must be a source of belly laughs for many a psychopathic leader.

I admit the part that Dane Wigington said about 20 days for the barrier reef is unknowable, however we mustn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

As my good friend and sage, Rasha Foda says: "The problem is not as much in the greed and ruthlessness of the minority as in the ignorance, divisions, and complacency of the majority. These form both the source of their power and the barriers that insulate the elite from any effective opposition."


Do you think that an entrenched controlling machinery

will make things defined for you so you can easily understand? No! The executors of power don't even answer our questions and these are people whom you agree to "represent" you! I agree about the 20 day thing in Dane Wigington's talk, it's a bit alarmist though we are definitely in an emergency state, the coral reefs are bleaching, we're losing them, every month the temps surpass the record and the rate of 500-year events are happening with increasing consistency. And a whole lot more which I won't bore you with. Given that, you're going to argue about the peripheral details and completely miss the plot about the exponential endangerment to human health.

On a sideline - it behooves the powers that shouldn't be, to keep us ignorant. Then they can easily capitalize on that ignorance. Information is power but most people don't want to talk because it upsets their equilibrium to know the real truth, to be properly informed. We don't know who did 9/11 but does our government strive to find out? NO! Why? Do you ever ask yourself why are we kept in the dark about his massive crime? And so too, why doesn't the government come out and make a clear statement about chemtrails, hold a press conference or open the discussion to ease our concerns? Maybe that is alright with you. It's not with some of us and we will continue to ask questions and not put our heads in the sand. And instead of supporting such actions, you and others like you castigate the questioners of government falling right into their laps as they expect.

"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." Leonardo da Vinci


As has been explained to you

As has been explained to you time and time again: For the same reason the government doesn't need to respond to claims that unicorns exist.

I am glad this chemtrail nonsense is being officially ignored, it is not worthy of being dignified or legitimized with a formal response.


So you need no explanation from government?

You just take their word for it? And scientist's word for it? You have no curiosity. You don't mind that it may be true even though a heck of a lot of people have noticed they're not contrails and only idiots would think vapors that last hours and cover the sky are contrails.

You cannot tell the difference between unicorns and sprayed toxins. I guess you have a view of government that is fragile and inquiry could very well break that view.


Chemtrails are utter and

Chemtrails are utter and complete bullshit. Do not claim they "may" be true, thats idiotic. They do not exist, only ignorant idiots or mentally ill people believe in them.

Contrails can and do persist for long periods of time, that has been explained to you over and over and over again. It has been explained to most of the well known chemtrail conspiracy theorist nutcases too and they persistently fail to understand basic science.

Contrails are essentially artificial clouds, they persist for the same reasons clouds persist. I'm not wasting any more time explaining that in more detail, just read whats already been posted and actually try to comprehend it this time.

And for the most part, yes I trust a doctor when it comes to medical issues more than some crazy idiot who reads webMD or more akin to your case, crystalselfhealing.com.... (I just made that up, but you get the idea).

That said, I actually do have a degree of understanding on the science behind contrails and you very clearly do not.

So, stop talking about things which you very clearly have absolutely no understanding of. You are not qualified.


I know you chemtrail

I know you chemtrail crackpots aren't really into the whole "actual data" thing, but heres a toy for you to play with:


This shows real-time to slightly delayed flight data for *most* commercial flights, particularly those equipped with ADS-B transponders assuming theres a ground station equipped with the appropriate gear within range (not sure how well southern VT is covered by said gear)

So next time you see a contrail and have deluded yourself into thinking the plane its coming from is flying too low for it to be a contrail, or that its a sekrit gubmint flight.... hop onto this website and you can see its altitude as well as its flight information (what kind of plane, operated by who, going where... etc...)


And you dear sir

are a blind fool if I may be so bold.


Scientists are not the last word - they have been wrong before

The important thing in the end, is discernment and good judgment. Anything can be backed up by science as it has done so before and been wrong.



This site is now worse than Green Mtn. Daily


The effect of chemtrails

The other day I complained to a friend that most of the people I know seem to be crazy. "I wonder if I'm crazy too," I said.

"No, you're not crazy," my friend assured me. He is a kind man. He is well liked and respected by everyone. "But why," he asked me, "do you think all your friends are crazy?"

"Oh, I don't mean you," I quickly assured him. He nodded, and waited for my answer.

"Well, each one is more dysfunctional than the next one. They make bad decisions, and complain about the results."

There was a pause, while my friend -- a serious look on his face -- gave the matter deep consideration. Then, in a thoughtful manner, he said: "It's probably that stuff they're spraying into the atmosphere."

"You mean chemtrails? I said.

"Yeah, you know... from planes. They are trying to kill off the poor people so that rich people can take over and have everything."

I considered what he said. It was something I had not thought of before. "You mean the stuff only kills poor people, but not rich people?"

"Yeah. it's the government."

"How do you know that?" I asked.

"It's what I think." He spoke with quiet certainly in a manner which inspires confidence.

I put my hand on my friend's shoulder, and said, "I have to go now."


It kills all people

this guy didn't think it through properly. Followers are a type of person, a certain percentage of the population, just like psychopaths are a certain percentage of the population, and followers will occur on both sides of any issue. So you can't tell if chemtrails are real by simply following a thought leader.

This is a decision that impacts everyone on planet earth. This is not some crazy theory like Paul McCartney died and had someone fill in for him.

Science has often been proven wrong. Indeed science is always wrong because it is always discovering new things that makes its previous hypotheses moot, such as quantum physics making Newtonian physics moot. Now if I'm wrong, someone please challenge me. And we'll see if the logic and resonance takes us to a better understanding. It's not just logic we need to go by but "resonance" too, a certain knowingness that fits right. That is something we have not developed in ourselves but it is a capability.

Don't call me insane. Tell me where I'm wrong. That is the adult thing to do. What is sane anyway? What is the definition? I bet those who call others insane have no definition of what insane is. But I could be wrong.

And science has often been wrong. It is safe to say that we all are wrong sometimes. This world is still very mysterious and we're all just winging it as best we can. The best thing we can hope for is to sharpen our discernment and try to exercise the best judgment, but it is a learning process. We'll get better at discernment and good judgment if we practice, and get the proper feedback on where we are right and where we are wrong. We won't get better at discernment if we simply dismiss looking at the consequences of each side in a "what if" scenario.

Scientists who are telling us that chemtrails-are-contrails could be wrong and what if they are? And what if the contrails-are-hemtrails side is wrong? If those saying that chemtrails-are-contrails are wrong, their opinions jeopardize everyone on the planet. If the contrails-are-chemtrails side is wrong, nobody gets hurt, except maybe some egos.

Why doesn't the government make a statement to alleviate our concerns? Some think government cares about us, then why not tell us one way or the other what is going on in our skies?


Tell us where you are right

DW: “(Science) is always wrong because it is always discovering new things that makes its previous hypotheses moot, such as quantum physics making Newtonian physics moot. Now if I'm wrong, someone please challenge me…Tell me where I'm wrong.”

You keep insisting on making hollow assertions without providing your proof, and then you challenge readers to prove you right or wrong. What is it about that that you do not understand?

I do not think you are “insane.” But there is a mental disorder of your thinking processes.

Quantum physics did not make Newtonian physic moot. Newton is not in dispute, as far as classical physics is concerned. . Scientists are oftentimes building on the work of previous scientists and use mathematics, observations, experiemts and develop new theories to make transitions from one to the other. Quantum mechanics is a probabilistic science; classical mechanics is deterministic.
Quantum mechanics is "theory" at this stage of its research. It's not provable in the sense that science normally prove theorms..

Here's some links you may (or may not) find useful.



Small correction about

Small correction about quantum mechanics not being provable. (It is, and largely has been provable/proven).

General Relativity (gravity) and Quantum Field Theory (strong/weak nuclear force and electromagnetic force) are both the solid foundations on which all modern physics is based. Unifying the two theories via understanding quantum gravity is the next big horizon and would hopefully lead to the vaunted Grand Unified Theory/Theory of Everything.

So, quantum mechanics is as much a theory as is relativity. We've got it pretty much sorted out. It is long past the hypothesis stage. It works. Our electronics utilize quantum principles right now just as our GPS satellites use relativity to correct time dilation effects.

Remember when scientists say theory it means something different than when non-scientists use the word theory. A theory in science means it can be regarded pretty much as fact in day-to-day life. A hypotheses is when its an unproven idea. A theory means it has withstood all manner of checking, experiments etc. etc. A theory *must* have empirical evidence to back it up in order for it to be called a theory. Otherwise its just a hypothesis.

This is in contradiction to the confusingly and poorly named string theory or M-theory, which is just a hypothesis because there is no proposed way to test it at this time, so it has zero evidence behind it.

So, much like the theory of evolution, general relativity (gravity), thermodynamics, etc... quantum mechanics can be considered a fact in the day to day sense.

So, I'm not sure what you mean by quantum mechanics not being provable in the normal sense?

When lay people say theory they generally mean hypothesis. Hence the ignorant crap Dward spews and the "Evolution is a theory!" bumper stickers from the creationists and science-deniers where "So is gravity" is a valid response because they both have been explained, tested and demonstrated to be accurate models of reality by science.


"...no entirely satisfactory interpretation of quantum mechanics

Stephen Weinberg wrote in "Collapse of the State Vector" (2012). "There is now in my opinion no entirely satisfactory interpretation of quantum mechanics."

However, in my (feeble) readings of quantum mechanics it is truly a real challenge for me to read, understand, retain and then playback accurately.

But I also know that quantum mechanics works with classic physics, not necessarily against it. If the Wikipedia article is accurate, this paragraph helps me to understand that:

“Quantum theory also provides accurate descriptions for many previously unexplained phenomena, such as black-body radiation and the stability of the orbitals of electrons in atoms. It has also given insight into the workings of many different biological systems, including smell receptors and protein structures. Recent work on photosynthesis has provided evidence that quantum correlations play an essential role in this fundamental process of plants and many other organisms. Even so, classical physics can often provide good approximations to results otherwise obtained by quantum physics, typically in circumstances with large numbers of particles or large quantum numbers. Since classical formulas are much simpler and easier to compute than quantum formulas, classical approximations are used and preferred when the system is large enough to render the effects of quantum mechanics insignificant.”

I think you have the best understanding of science that I have read locally and I appreciate and trust all the comments you make regarding our understanding of science.


From an interview with

From an interview with "Physics Today": July 2013.

" PT: There has been discussion on the Web about your "evolving" views on interpretations of quantum mechanics. What are the general flaws you see in existing interpretations? Are you working on a more satisfactory interpretation, and do you see one on the horizon?

Weinberg: Some very good theorists seem to be happy with an interpretation of quantum mechanics in which the wavefunction only serves to allow us to calculate the results of measurements. But the measuring apparatus and the physicist are presumably also governed by quantum mechanics, so ultimately we need interpretive postulates that do not distinguish apparatus or physicists from the rest of the world, and from which the usual postulates like the Born rule can be deduced. This effort seems to lead to something like a "many worlds" interpretation, which I find repellent. Alternatively, one can try to modify quantum mechanics so that the wavefunction does describe reality, and collapses stochastically and nonlinearly, but this seems to open up the possibility of instantaneous communication. I work on the interpretation of quantum mechanics from time to time, but have gotten nowhere."

Weinberg is highly regarded and has been increasingly critical of quantum theory in his old age (Keep in mind he made significant contributions to QFT during his lifetime). He doesn't seem to think that QFT is incorrect, but rather that there is a better and more complete model that would better describe what QFT describes.

However he himself readily admits he's gotten nowhere in attempting to find a better explanation. So, if he's right, he can't prove it yet and he could also very well be wrong. Unfortunately, it is unlikely that the question will be resolved in what remains of his lifetime, so perhaps one of his students will be the one to make significant contributions to QFT or to make a breakthrough that overhauls it.

No one is claiming that quantum theory is *complete* or that it will not be refined with another theory some time down the line like Newtonian physics was. Much like Newtonian/Classical physics does in your quote above, quantum mechanics at that time may get us to a sufficiently accurate approximation for a given question and then whatever theory goes a level deeper, if any, would then take over at the point where that level of resolution is required.

For example, our theory of gravity is pretty good. It works, it can be considered fact in day-to-day life. Yet the particle in the standard model (the standard model is part of quantum physics by the way, and it is part of the bedrock of physics) called the "graviton" remains theoretical and has yet to be observed or confirmed to exist.

Does that render our understanding of gravity incorrect? Yes and no. It means we may be 99% there, but theres still some stuff we don't know that could push that to 99.9%, and then the next level of inquiry can get us to 99.99%... etc. etc..

What Weinberg is talking about (I think, based on context and other stuff from him I've read) is that quantum mechanics *works* but we are a ways off from 100% yet and theres still a lot of work to be done to thresh out the remaining questions (which will in turn raise more questions and around and around we go).

For example, theres a few problems with the big bang theory that we havn't worked out yet. At this point though, the theory has SO MUCH evidence in its corner that resolving the problems is likely only going to refine or adjust the theory or place it within a larger overall umbrella rather than throw it out entirely because we know the broad strokes and even quite a lot of the details are extremely accurate and reliable.

There are still questions and problems to be answered and resolved, but experimental evidence has demonstrated that quantum field theory generally works.

As I said above, our ignorance and lack of means to potentially experiment on quantum gravity is a really big deal. Quantum mechanics cannot be "complete" without that blank spot being filled in and even then, it may itself becomes part of a much larger picture down the line as we learn more and more.

As for being the local science guru.... Brattleboro isn't exactly a center for technical and scientific matters. I'm quite the amateur. This is just a really small pond. I imagine one of the better local engineers could find flaws in stuff I've written here. (And unlike the tripartite of crackpots, I would eagerly accept corrections so as to learn.)


You might not be a science guru but

You might not be a science guru but you amply demonstrate a genuine appreciation and use of science.

I have been sick of hearing people put down science, and usually in favor of some kind of belief. It's about time we have your rational view of things.

I would easily accept you being wrong because I agree with your sentiment that, as you say, "I would eagerly accept corrections so as to learn."

In a real way, I think that statement is one of the tenets of science.

As you say in your reply to DWard below, "I have explained over and over and over again why you are wrong. Just go back and re-read what I've already written" indicates that there an ingrained bias block of some kind in play and DWard might not be able to learn or relearn. When you factor in her tenacious belief syndrome, well, "Houston, we've (had) got a problem."


You seem to totally overlook the fact

that your reliance on science (hey a poem) is also a belief system. And that clouds thinking. Watch the video of doctors and throat specialists boasting about their preferred brand of cigarettes (which I posted on one of these later posts)


Another unfounded claim

Just because you make the assertion (and assumption) that “reliance of science” is a belief system and that it clouds ones thinking does not make it so. That is just another one of your growing list of unfounded claims.

If were to address cloudy thinking in my reply, it would not be about scientific thinkers. I need to look no further than reading your chemtrails beliefs to see cloudy thinking in its truest form.

As for your posted video here about “doctors boasting about their preferred brand of cigarettes” I call your attention to my already posted comment: Submitted by Vidda on July 28, 2016 - 6:29pm Yet another attack by a believer against science


You continue to fundamentally

You continue to fundamentally misunderstand science.

It is not in any way a belief system. Don't try do pull the "Well you're no better" crap.

The Earth orbits the sun regardless of whether you believe it does or not. Science is the best method we currently have of determining whether the statement "The earth orbits the sun" is true or not using empirical evidence that can be verified by any observer.


Imagine what the Wright brothers had to go through

They had everyone calling them idiots. Here we are arguing about science while we're being sprayed with toxins from above. Deny your own eyes everyone - if science tells you so (or if science hasn't caught up yet) Really, if I didn't live through this, it would seem unbelievable.

By the way, the owners of this site have decided that no new posts will be accepted about chemtrails although they refuse to announce this publicly. They hide behind the "Terms of Service" or policy, and justify it by saying they are using their discretion (funny how the ones with the advantage always make sure they maintain the advantage - it's always their policy, rarely about the public's "policy") However when asked, they will not answer why they have made this decision. They point blank refuse to answer.

This is how the public only gets to know what someone deems is worthy of them knowing. This is unmitigated censorship and this is why people are kept ignorant. How many people wish to make new postings about chemtrails? We don't know. And the decision couldn't be because the subject doesn't garner readership interest.

"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." Leonardo da Vinci


They actually had a plane

They actually had a plane that flew though. They backed up their claims with evidence to show that they were right and then rather than being mocked they got rich and famous. At least until they got a bit lawsuit-happy against other earlier aircraft designers... Nontheless, they demonstrated their claims.

You havn't. No chemtrail proponent has.

You have been shown to be flat wrong on every single point. Either change your mind, or come up with the equivalent of a plane that flies to substantiate your claims. Given your level of scientific ignorance, its best if you just stop trying to make scientific claims in the first place.

As for ibrattleboro's policy, no wonder you are necro-ing these old threads... Lets Chris Pratt off the hook with his "expert" debater too... bummer.


I have explained over and

I have explained over and over and over again why you are wrong. Just go back and re-read what I've already written.

You do not understand science, you do not understand evidence, you do not understand epistemology.

Tossing out a form of Pascal's wager does not lend any credibility to your nonsense chemtrail conspiracy theory.

So you want the government to make a statement to alleviate your concerns. What a bunch of bullshit. When they say "This doesn't exist outside your imagination" you will just claim that they are lying or covering up. If they say nothing, you whine about being ignored or ask "What are they hiding?!". If an impatient employee trolls you and says "Yes, we are spraying you with aluminum for reasons" you'll freak the fuck out and run around the internet with your "evidence".

There is no reason to release an official statement on chemtrails, just like there is no reason to release an official statement that unicorns aren't real. Stop wasting people's time with utter nonsensical drivel.

By the way, I just skimmed the filings for this court case, looks like a motion to strike is imminent and if successful, this lawsuit will be tossed out rather speedily.

If you research this lawyer and other lawsuits filed by this Wigington nutcase, you'll see that they often crow about filing a lawsuit, hire a lawye to make the filing (the easy and cheap part) and then try to fundraise off of the idea. They never get anywhere and the lawsuit fell apart pretty quickly last time.

I don't expect this will be any different once folks actually have to pony up money to pay the lawyer to do the real work, which is where their last attempt at a lawsuit failed.

This is simple attention-whoring in order to solicit donations from the ignorant and gullible, nothing more.


What good is it if I talk in flowers

while you're thinking in pastry?

Scientists are human too. Though they think their perspectives are superior. And many of us are awed by that creating yet another box to think within.



Yet another attack by a believer against science

DW: “What good is it if I talk in flowers while you're thinking in pastry?’

Therein lays your problem. This article is about chemtrails conspiracies. But these spate of chemicals articles seem to be a springboard for the authors to highlight any old conspiracy that comes to mind.

If the authors had stayed on topic, a cogent discussion of chemtrails might have taken place, even at the risk of having their topic unproveable, as contrails science gained the higher ground (thanks, I have to say in large part, to Eschmitt’s contributions with an obviously good understanding of science).

Elementally, the result is that we are left with a ‘chemtrails’ belief system, but with no real science behind your assertions. We are left with also, yet another attack by a believer against science.

You have never proven that anyone by any name is intentionally spraying our skies with chemicals for the purpose of indiscriminately harming or destroying widespread plant and animal life in the air and on the land and sea.

And, bringing up tobacco conspiracies, (as in the link you provided here) or any other conspiracy, does nothing to prove your claims. Neither does continuously badmouthing science help you support your claims.


It's a matter of

joining the dots. How can scientists connect the dots when they are compartmentalized into the narrow enclosures of their specialization? Join the dots is a game where you link the isolated relevancies that seem unrelated, into a picture that ties them all together. But only by joining the dots do you see the overall picture. For example...if the government is poisoning our water with fluoride (which is an environmental hazard that was collected from industrial pollution scrubbers and none too good for our health), they are just as likely to spray chemicals over our heads from airplanes to get rid of coal fly ash. I'll spell it out - fluoride in water = poison but it doesn't seem related to chemtrails. Chemtrails = poison but doesn't seem related to drinking water. Another example: Scientists have known about the placebo effect for decades but they simply attributed the effect to a portion of clinical trial outcomes and that was that. You'd have thought that they would consider this golden - a sub-conscious effect from taking drugs that cures without side effects, and sometimes equaling the very drug being tested! You'd think they'd want to study it and expand that effect. But no. They simply ignored it as just another stat and carried on their testing for drugs that you have to purchase from them. And you are defending that and calling people who question it into question with an attitude of superiority to boot.


...swollen thick with debris that just rushes past everybody

I had wondered if anyone was chemtrail’ed-out by now. But, as I wrote earlier today, it occurred to me that this recent spate of chemtrails articles are no longer about chemtrails because you, as one of the authors, are using them as a wedge to proselytize your anti-science sentiments in favor of your beliefs and your subscription to a litany of conspiracy theories.

It’s almost as if poor chemtrails are relegated to the back burner. It’s just as well. They were never a front burner issue anyway.

Yet, I cannot shake the already expressed thoughts that you really do not know what you're talking about. Your river of thoughts and beliefs are swollen thick with debris that just rushes past everybody and swallows everything in its path....very much like how, during the 2011 Irene hurricane, the Whetstone Brook overflowed and carried everything in its path - logs, refrigerators, cars, building materials,etc and washed it all into the Connecticut River...


Wow, is this how broken your

Wow, is this how broken your thinking is? First off, you are ignorant and flat wrong about flouride, which is not surprising.

But, you think that since we flouridate public water supplies that therefore chemtrails are real? Wow... well, there you have it folks. This is what fundamentally broken thinking looks like.

That almost rivals the "laws don't apply to me" and one minute later "I have constitutional rights".

Also, where the hell are you pulling this utter nonsense about the placebo effect? You are making completely false claims and you have no idea what you are talking about.

You have also been corrected several times already. Please use google to find information that *isn't* from conspiracy theorist crackpot sites so you can have a remote chance of rejoining reality.


Government lies

Our government would never lie to us. They're good, kind and true!
Besides, it's unconstitutional.


If you're not at the table,

you're on the menu. ~ TPP protest sign


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